Battletech

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 15 Sep 2006, 01:24

So, back to the economic concerns, i.e. the absurdly undercost infantry or overcost Mechs/Vehicles/Vtols...

In the Battletech tabletop rules a 20-ton IR Commando at Tech Level 1 costs about 2,100,000 credits while a squad of 28 IR riflemen costs 600,000 credits - on a side note, I haven't found any data on infantry outfitted with LRMs... - anyway, this makes the absurd amount of infantry you can pump out per Mech off by a large margin, even in comparison to Battletech standards.

I've been approached by a few fringe members of the Spring community about this after advertising the mod elsewhere, so I'm trying to channel the interests of about six people right now...

The mod is very well done in general, but the economics are wildly off to the point that they equate to a stagnation in gameplay... something must be done on this front soon. I would refer to some of my earlier posts about this point as well.

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 15 Sep 2006, 13:53

Yes, the infantry gameplay of this mod is, while refreshing, almost like nano-blobs.

Also, there is this fundamental imbalance in infantry between Clan and IS; where all the clan inf can cloak indefinetly and become extremely powerful while the IS inf costs only 1 instead of 2 metal, which doesnt actually weight in though.

Also, inf gameplay is broken until friendly fire in spring is fixed so they can shoot throuh eachother.

I never got a mech to trample inf btw, wonder if it works correctly.

Needy is proably right, the build-time and cost of all inf should be raised, not to the levels of a vehicle, but 10 to 30 metal per inf should suffice, so that you wont have an endless stream from multiple barracks but smaller, more controlled squads. Their HP could be raised to compensate, their weapons are awesome enough already.

Kemisti · Post by **Kemisti** » 16 Sep 2006, 14:55

oh yes one more thing, for request of mechs ect.. make sure you include the variant, because you might not like my choice since there are many variants out there

Well it's clear that masakari should be primary variant carrying quad ERPPC's and LRM10. As for commando I was thinking about COM-2J.

Also could someone make proper AI for this mod, please.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 16 Sep 2006, 18:51

Whip up an AAI.cfg or a NTai buildtree. The former is a little less specific and may not be competitve immediately, the latter will take longer.

yuritch · Post by **yuritch** » 16 Sep 2006, 22:41

I've made an AAI config for this mod. However, there is something strange with it - any attempt to have an AI player use Clans results in AAI crash. AAI plays Innersphere only for some reason.
Also, AAI likes infantry way too much. It often runs into unit limit because of this. And as no unit from the barracks suits the scout role, until AI decides to build a vehicle or air factory, its huge infantry horde is sitting somewhere doing nothing. Maybe after some games of HEAVY infantry smashing by vehicles and mechs it will learn, 5 games weren't enough for this.
Tested with "TBT b0.11.sd7" mod version.

Code: Select all

SIDES 2
START_UNITS CLANCOM ISCOM
SIDE_NAMES Clans Innersphere
MAX_UNITS 5000
MAX_SCOUTS 4
MAX_BUILDERS 40
MAX_BUILDERS_PER_TYPE 6
MAX_FACTORIES_PER_TYPE 4
MIN_FACTORIES_FOR_DEFENCES 2
MAX_GROUP_SIZE 24
MAX_AIR_GROUP_SIZE 12
MAX_XROW 8
MAX_YROW 8
X_SPACE 16
Y_SPACE 16
MAX_BASE_SIZE 8
SCOUT_SPEED 950.0
MOBILE_ARTY_RANGE 9000.0
STATIONARY_ARTY_RANGE 5000.0
MIN_ENERGY 18  
AIR_DEFENCE 5
MAX_METAL_COST 50000
MAX_MEX_DISTANCE 9
MAX_MEX_DEFENCE_DISTANCE 7
SCOUTS 6 GABRIEL ODIN SAVANAH SKULKER ASSHUR ISBMRNG
METAL_ENERGY_RATIO 25
MAX_METAL_MAKERS 15
MIN_METAL_MAKER_ENERGY 100
MIN_AIR_ATTACK_COST 1200
MIN_AIR_SUPPORT_EFFICIENCY 3.0
AIRCRAFT_RATE 4
MAX_DEFENCES 8

redcoat · Post by **redcoat** » 23 Sep 2006, 19:13

Where can I download this mod? Fileuniverse's link http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=3833 do nothing and the mod's webpage doesn't have the file either. Am I missing something?

Archangel of Death · Post by **Archangel of Death** » 24 Sep 2006, 05:04

Interesting... I'll corner gnome about it.

heroesdoexist07 · Post by **heroesdoexist07** » 24 Sep 2006, 07:09

Yeah, I'd really like to download this mod. Unfortunately, there's no D/L link on FU. Any way you cuold email it to my sn@yahoo.com?

Archangel of Death · Post by **Archangel of Death** » 24 Sep 2006, 11:07

Issue resolved. Have fun and thank Gnome!

redcoat · Post by **redcoat** » 24 Sep 2006, 17:59

Thanks alot! As a fan of the insane tabletop game, I'm looking forward to checking the mod out.
-|2edcoaT

bobthedinosaur · Post by **bobthedinosaur** » 26 Sep 2006, 02:41

just got back from the field, been gone for neerly 2 weeks and can say id liek to get back to the mod. yes, definately need to work on over balanced infantry and resource system, so any advice would help. as in game play proof... also adding in some new units when i can.
will get back to you all later its beer time!

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 26 Sep 2006, 07:26

I once thought S3O's were infinitely more tedious than 3do's but after giving it an honest try it actually turns out S3O's and UV mapping are a hell of a lot easier... Once you get the hang of it, and figure out all the corners you can cut and the time you can save using tricks and stuff with the UV map, its actually quite a lot easier and yes, it does turn out much, much better visually.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 26 Sep 2006, 18:29

Snipawolf wrote:I wish spring had those graphics.. How the hell do people do that stuff?

Everything you see there is 100% possible in Spring, except for the terrain. The terrain isn't possible yet, but with the new map format we'll be a little closer.

bobthedinosaur · Post by **bobthedinosaur** » 29 Sep 2006, 23:54

im thinking of redoign all the unit descriptions to maybe include the full weapon list and unit speed, maybe it would be too long? maybe i should stick to a more mission defined description such as "heavy long range missle mech", but the problem with that is some emchs dont fall into those roles, and honestly come of the CBT varaints i created i dont honestly know what they preform best at, such as some multi role units thats have semi balance of speed fire power and what not.

also i was trying to think of a way to allow certain infantry units to cloak only while not moving, ie: stalking (sniper crawls). but if i cant make that work well i think ill just take out all infantry cloaking and let them just be stealthy. also anti infantry mguns to rplace the worthless light lasers? any ideas

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 30 Sep 2006, 00:18

Well, making inf not cloaking anymore is a very good change.

Perhaps you should even CUT all inf out, until spring has the feature that allows units to shoot through eachother. Right now only rocket and laser inf are usefull, scince they hit their targets even if you move them in blobs/snails, without daamagin eachother. All others somehow fail to avoid their friendlies.

Overhauling the unit descs is a good idea, if there isnt a distinct role for a units, which is the case with many of the mechs, just tell the user the class of the unit and its movement speed and weapon range. Thats enough info, along with the displayed cost, so you can decide if its worthwhile.

Instead of the AI Mgs, make to so that mechs and vechs can effectively trample the damn inf hoards. It still seems to me that not all mechs can crush them.

btw, if i remember right, all mechs that use light lasers also have configs where they dont use them at all, like, you can outfit them with one PPC or two flamers instead.

Just remove the light lasers and chose another config for the mechs that use em.

Kemisti · Post by **Kemisti** » 30 Sep 2006, 00:39

Overhauling the unit descs is a good idea, if there isnt a distinct role for a units, which is the case with many of the mechs, just tell the user the class of the unit and its movement speed and weapon range. Thats enough info, along with the displayed cost, so you can decide if its worthwhile.

That's where I don't agree. Weapon list s is a must! Simply the amount of mechs and vehicles makes it way too hard to remember every unit's armaments.

Archangel of Death · Post by **Archangel of Death** » 30 Sep 2006, 01:03

While full on ingame descriptions would be nice, I'm not sure the current gui would be too friendly with that. It would need a whole page of its own, like the F1 info box in OTA. For now we will probably have to settle for a lot less info. Knowing that it is an energy based brawler should be enough to at least keep you from using it in deserts. Hopefully we can give enough info for general use without resorting to outlining its full armament, speed, armor, and equipment.

bobthedinosaur · Post by **bobthedinosaur** » 30 Sep 2006, 03:44

i didnt mean light lasers as weapons i meant the deefence turret that doesnt seem to do much against vehicles or mechs or infantry even but slow them down slightly. i have adjusted the ac10 def turrets to have more damage against infantry, and altho not many units do use flamers both flamers and mguns do more damage to infantry. also infantry builds slower. and the only infy allowed to cloak im testing with is the sniper and the er laser how ever the er laser because it is bulkier will have a larger cloak detection radius. it would be nice to add a feature that allows units to uncloak if they move. but this is fine i just have a larger detection radius than previuosly.

altho vehs and mechs do trample units, ints not very common so im thinking of adding a trample weapons tat reamins on for any units 20+ tons.
for description i think ill only have abreviated weapons and speed counts such as: "2ERPPC 2MERL 1SL 5SPD". and that will encourage people to learn alittle bit about the CBT weapon systems. maybe a wiki would help to but i dont have any time for that.

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 30 Sep 2006, 14:12

Hm, i always build these AC cannon turrets, if any. I think its ok that defensive turrets are mostly weak, so you have less porcing.

The Gauss turret and the LRM ones on the other hand, kill entire armies.

This isnt AA afterall, on flat maps a scout tank rush can severly screw your day.

I dunno about changing unit costs just yet, i think its an issue left to the balance itterations which follow after v1.0, when all technical issues are ironed out.

Regarding the wiki, i dont think that would help, as most players dont read it anyway. You either have them play the mod to its fullest by using their assets in game, or they will simply wither away, when they feel its too demanding.

Not me of course, i am too much of a BT fanboi.

bobthedinosaur · Post by **bobthedinosaur** » 02 Oct 2006, 02:46

timberwolf is almost done

i made an cute little urby to but hes in 3do so yoll just have to wait for the next release to see him.

Spring RTS Engine

Battletech

What weapon stat system should we base it on?

AAI cfg