License of Operation Polaris 0.5 - Page 5

License of Operation Polaris 0.5

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KDR_11k
Game Developer
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006, 08:44

Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by KDR_11k »

Regret wrote:You're insane with your copyright and permission bullshit for limiting creativity.
Last I checked creativity is about thinking up something NEW, not taking what's already there.
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Zpock
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Zpock »

You never heard "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." (Einstein) then...
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KDR_11k
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by KDR_11k »

Hiding your sources takes creativity because otherwise your work will indicate them. Ooops, you just created something new :P. Fibre was inspired by Perimeter but that didn't mean I stole any models, code, etc from Perimeter. If someone is inspired by Operation Polaris and makes a similar mod with his own flavour added that's fine but waltzing in and whining how your creativity is being restriced by not being able to easily steal something is not. By making incomplete adaptions of works that were changed to fit our purposes we create new things even if they were derived to some degree. Someone trying to copy the parts of OP he wants would most likely result in something different.
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Jasper1984
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Jasper1984 »

Pxtl wrote:Personally, I like the LGPL, but you do whatever you like. Please, at the very least, be clear and use CreativeCommons-Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs.
I think Pxtl had a good post, but just to be clear, the LGPL is for code, not content.

Further, people seem to suggest that people suggest free licenses do so, so that we can have your content. Actually, i suggest code to be freely licensed, and allow you to put any license on content. Hell, if a bunch of creators think that they can earn money for it, i am fine with it. As long as they don't infringe copyright.(And (L)GPL allow you to ask money.)
The advantage of CreativeCommons-Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs over just giving people permission, is that people can keep distributing your stuff if you can't be contacted, while no-one is allowed to steal it and sell it for money, or is allowed to put monkeys throwing poo on the model. And if you license something to someone, doesnt mean you can't license it to someone else with another license. Unless other obligations regarding the work(Including what it is a derivative of), or the first license forbid it. Pretty sure the (L)GPL, and CC licenses don't.(IF it isn't derived from the same type of license! that counts as 'other obligation'.)

I guess maybe you want your models in some games/mods only, and that is fine. Just do it the 'permission' way, but i don't see any reason why you should want to do it that way for code. Maybe for laser/explosion scripts? (Those might still be useful without the content.)

PS Braindamage was right, i should never have mentioned the gpl :/
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by zwzsg »

smoth wrote:scriptor can DECOMPILE.
1) Take that script of mine. Compile it. Then decompile it. Oh noes! Where has the Killed function gone?

2) Look at what the code of the function DroppingAndGrabbing has become:

Code: Select all

DroppingAndGrabbing(Func_Var_1, Func_Var_2, Func_Var_3, Func_Var_4, Func_Var_5, Func_Var_6, Func_Var_7, Func_Var_8, Func_Var_9, Func_Var_10, Func_Var_11, Func_Var_12, Func_Var_13)
{
	Func_Var_13 = 1;
	while( TRUE )
	{
		Func_Var_1 = 0;
		if( Static_Var_25 != 2 )
		{
			Func_Var_13 = 1;
		}
		if( Static_Var_25 == 2 )
		{
			Func_Var_1 = 1;
			Func_Var_2 = Static_Var_22;
			while( Func_Var_2 >= Static_Var_21 )
			{
				if( get UNIT_XZ(Func_Var_2) )
				{
				....
Crystal clear, isn't it?

3) Look, there do exist some c++ decompilers! Let's ditch the whole Spring repository, it's useless since we can just decompile the exe.
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smoth
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by smoth »

zwzsg wrote: 3) Look, there do exist some c++ decompilers! Let's ditch the whole Spring repository, it's useless since we can just decompile the exe.
The point of an svn isn't check out, it is versioning, allowing easier reversions tracking changes, making code patches... There are more benefits to a repository but the point is stilll that the mods of spring are extremely open to reading. I don't get why you went here, decompiling something versus it being on a svn means soo much more to the team working on the code. To most people on this site the concept of the spring SVN seems alien to them though, so I guess someone would possibly out of ignorance try to decompile it. Is that the point of that section?

Zwzsg, I don't want to get into a long drawn out debate with you but any bos I needed to read has been easy to read after decomile. Kingdoms is different but I have never had an issue reading decompiled code from scriptor. I have read decompiled c++ code and that is not the same. Most scripts in the projects are childs play with few being more than OH LOOK A MODIFIED TANK. I know you are trying to say oh look but it could be complex or work weird but frankly that isn't here or there. If they are going to do anything complicated with gundam I suspect it would be lua.

Hell sometimes I delete a cob and then just decompile the bos and change all the var_x shit back. If someone did do a ZWZSG level code change I probably would care and probably could read much of it. I just want simple scripts for a reason. Most scripts are not as complicated as yours. I always consider your scripts as an outlyer. The main thing you lose in a decompile are the comments and names, I am sure in time you can figure out the var names if you really want to but ffs zwzsg, that is like saying all models are going to be high quality. Most of the scripting i have seen is very much copy pasta crap. Hell, I noticed some similar behaviors in xect vs mynn and immediately recognized that many of the scrips are stolen TA script. I was sad because i hoped to learn something new.

I sincerely doubt you would use my scripts in the first place, most of them are merely quick hacks which is why soon I will be rewriting near all the gundam scripts. Again not that any of that matters, my scripts were always pd anyway. I just liked people to ask so I knew what to look at.
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Tobi
Spring Developer
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Tobi »

The main point of all these post about decompilation is that "the preferred form for modifications" IS NOT "any form which I happen to be able to modify because I'm leet and I don't need no comments or variable names" NOR "I can modify anything cause I've hex editor!!!!!!!!11 so it's all very open!!!!!1"

The preferred form for modifications is always the original source, and not some random other form which happens to be modifiable too.
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smoth
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by smoth »

i was the me who pointed that out. What I was trying to say is that more or less the mods are open to whoever wants to read them. most of us include our bos files anyway, I run into very few who do not. I just figured most others did it as a courtesy.
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manolo_
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by manolo_ »

anything new on this mod?
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oksnoop2
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by oksnoop2 »

Man, I spent probably an hour reading this novel of a thread thinking these posts were recent. I get to second to last one and see it was posted in 2008...Sigh. Anyway is this game still being developed for spring and for that matter is EE still being developed?
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Pxtl
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Pxtl »

Fanger got eaten by WoW, so no new EE on the horizon.
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SanadaUjiosan
Conflict Terra Developer
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by SanadaUjiosan »

Aww, WoW claims another soul...
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j5mello
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by j5mello »

uh actually he is off the WoW thing, we are playing Borderlands, BF2142, and Sword of the Stars. Atm he is away dealing with family stuff.

Last I asked he wasn't interested in coming back due to a lack of support with lua work plus a lack of support as to the direction he wanted to take the mod. That and the size bitching...

And before anyone asks, the mod is NOT up for grabs for anyone to muck about with. Maybe for a fix to the lua portions so that the game will run in current spring. If someone wants to do that go ahead and pm me the fixed version and ill have Fang look it over. Don't just release it into the wild.

Otherwise leave it alone.
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Tribulex
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Tribulex »

RIP EE as best mod ever.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Forboding Angel »

Yet the massive majority of you still managed to ignore it. Well played. :roll:

Mello, if you like I can do the modinfo thingy for ya (so could nearly anyone here), I don't know if any of the otehr luaz are broken so I couldn't fix that, but if it's modinfo that just needs a little lovin, then I can help :-)
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KDR_11k
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by KDR_11k »

j5mello wrote:Last I asked he wasn't interested in coming back due to a lack of support with lua work
Didn't Smoth repeatedly offer assistance there?
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

guys lets settle this over a friendly game of walkers vs rollers
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