Balanced Annihilation Strategy guides
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Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
armed mexes are ok, not becaus they do alot of dps but becaus they have quite some hp, so they wont die from a stupid weasel hiding behind the mex to avoid the llt
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
I don't think armed mexes are worth the cost, even with that ability, because they're so very much more expensive than normal ones that it's usually better (though more micro-intensive) just to rebuild over and over again.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Also some of them will lose u tons of m since the generate less metal.
You could say that some might live a bit longer but if some will last till the end of the game u will be losing tons of metal.
You could say that some might live a bit longer but if some will last till the end of the game u will be losing tons of metal.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
they give like 0.2 less, i dont use them in my base ofc but at front in the beginning
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
What about submarine killers? Seems like Normal subs or Battle subs are better.
Actually, can I get some general marine advice?
Actually, can I get some general marine advice?
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smokingwreckage
- Posts: 327
- Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 11:40
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
The more worrying thing about armed mexxes is not the upfront cost but the ongoing M loss.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Know what you opponent is doing (scouts).UAF wrote:What about submarine killers? Seems like Normal subs or Battle subs are better.
Actually, can I get some general marine advice?
Have a general attack force (corvettes).
Pwn ur enemy's corvette fleet (subs).
Counter ur enemy's subs (destroyers).
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Evil4Zerggin
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 16 May 2007, 06:34
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Sea opening that will destroy 50% of random teamers within a few minutes: the single Corvette rush. Granted this is more due to few people knowing how to play sea at all effectively than to the strength of this strategy. This guide is oriented a bit toward team games, since that's what I usually played; 1v1s such as Sands of War is a different animal.
1. Standard ~3 mexes, ~4 tidals, sonar.
2. Shipyard, and if you want to go the cautious route, torpedo or depthcharge launcher.
4. Scout boat. Send this toward where you believe the enemy shipyard is IMMEDIATELY; however, look at the enemy coast for any ground deformation that might belong to a depthcharge launcher (you can do this without actually having LOS). If there is such deformation, don't get too close to it! However it also means that the enemy shipyard is probably located there.
5. Start a corvette.
6. If your corvette finishes before your Scout Boat finishes its scouting run, send it along the same route. Don't get distracted by enemy scouts--a conship can usually defend itself against a single scout via reclaim, and with your comm and possibly TL/DCL around, your shipyard isn't under much threat yet. Besides, scouts outrun corvettes.
7. What happens now depends on what your Scout Boat sees.
If you see nothing:
This means that the enemy didn't start sea (be careful about jumping to conclusions though, and keep the coast scouted)--probably the second-best possibility. If it's a team game and your corvette isn't out yet, cancel your corvette and build a conship first since the enemy can't get at you very quickly from out of the sea. Concentrate on econ early, but keep an eye on the enemy coastline and beware of hovers.
If you see TL/DCL but no enemy corvette:
You can't take out the enemy immediately. However, without enemy corvettes you can pounce on any conship with your corvette that leaves the immediate area of the TL/DCL. Use your scout boat to watch for this.
If you see an enemy corvette:
Unless you really don't think the enemy knows what they are doing, you should probably play it safe at this point since the enemy probably has their comm in the area and can repair their way to an edge if battle happens at their shipyard. Leaving a corvette wreck on their doorstep is VERY BAD. If you don't let the enemy win an early corvette battle, though, you should be on at least even ground.
If you see the shipyard nanoing something that you can't see:
This means that the enemy is making a sub. Since the sub is much more expensive than the corvette, it will most likely not finish as soon as your corvette gets there unless it is a large map. This one is a judgement call--if the enemy doesn't repair their shipyard there's a good chance you can nail it before the sub finishes. If the enemy doesn't cancel they lose the shipyard and whatever resources they put into the sub. Even if the sub finishes, if you have balls and micro you may still be able to destroy the shipyard while dodging the sub's torpedoes, but this is very risky.
If you see some other non-corvette start:
This is ideal, and you'd be surprised how many players have no corvette and no TL/DCL when your corvette gets there (even if you built TL/DCL first!). Pew-pew the shipyard with your corvette; unless the enemy is quick on the reclaim there's no way to save their shipyard. Hit any scout boats they may have first. If the enemy has conships trying to reclaim you and the unit under construction in their shipyard is not going to be helpful to their efforts in fending off your corvette, you may want to target the conships first; otherwise you'll probably want to hit the shipyard first. For some reason this effectively finishes 50% of randoms.
Aftermath
Ideally you will destroy the enemy shipyard and cons with your corvette. However, even if this happens, don't get too comfortable! The first duty of a sea player is to make sure that they REALLY control the sea. As soon as is economically feasible, I would recommend getting a sub over to the enemy shore; if they are scaring your corvettes away with capture and building TLs, you may want a royer instead. If their comm is still underwater, you can sometimes nail their boy, which of course is a HUGE bonus--you get 2500 metal, and they're most likely out of the game. A sub will also let you know about attempts from the enemy to get back into the sea without the enemy knowing that you can know.
If your corvette rush doesn't achieve this, then follow what LordMatt said. I'll leave the finer points of T1 ship combat for another time (and possibly someone else).
In any case, whether the corvette rush succeeds or not, don't stop putting pressure on the enemy until you are sure they are completely out of the sea. This will make it much more difficult for them to get back in.
AS SOON this is done, move onto the second duty of a sea player--helping their land allies the fuck out. The quickest (and therefore usually best) way to do this is building a hover factory followed by a group of scout hovers, then raiding the enemy bases with them. This is also a good way to learn if an enemy is building hovers. Again, you'd be surprised how often and well this succeeds; perhaps the opposing sea player tends to be lax in informing their allies that the enemy now controls their coastline?
TLDR
Rush scout boat and corvette. Use the scout boat to see if you can cripple the enemy with the corvette, and use the corvette accordingly.
Your first duty as a sea player is to make sure you control the sea.
Your second duty as a sea player is to help your land allies. This is often effectively accomplished by raiding with scout hovers.
1. Standard ~3 mexes, ~4 tidals, sonar.
2. Shipyard, and if you want to go the cautious route, torpedo or depthcharge launcher.
4. Scout boat. Send this toward where you believe the enemy shipyard is IMMEDIATELY; however, look at the enemy coast for any ground deformation that might belong to a depthcharge launcher (you can do this without actually having LOS). If there is such deformation, don't get too close to it! However it also means that the enemy shipyard is probably located there.
5. Start a corvette.
6. If your corvette finishes before your Scout Boat finishes its scouting run, send it along the same route. Don't get distracted by enemy scouts--a conship can usually defend itself against a single scout via reclaim, and with your comm and possibly TL/DCL around, your shipyard isn't under much threat yet. Besides, scouts outrun corvettes.
7. What happens now depends on what your Scout Boat sees.
If you see nothing:
This means that the enemy didn't start sea (be careful about jumping to conclusions though, and keep the coast scouted)--probably the second-best possibility. If it's a team game and your corvette isn't out yet, cancel your corvette and build a conship first since the enemy can't get at you very quickly from out of the sea. Concentrate on econ early, but keep an eye on the enemy coastline and beware of hovers.
If you see TL/DCL but no enemy corvette:
You can't take out the enemy immediately. However, without enemy corvettes you can pounce on any conship with your corvette that leaves the immediate area of the TL/DCL. Use your scout boat to watch for this.
If you see an enemy corvette:
Unless you really don't think the enemy knows what they are doing, you should probably play it safe at this point since the enemy probably has their comm in the area and can repair their way to an edge if battle happens at their shipyard. Leaving a corvette wreck on their doorstep is VERY BAD. If you don't let the enemy win an early corvette battle, though, you should be on at least even ground.
If you see the shipyard nanoing something that you can't see:
This means that the enemy is making a sub. Since the sub is much more expensive than the corvette, it will most likely not finish as soon as your corvette gets there unless it is a large map. This one is a judgement call--if the enemy doesn't repair their shipyard there's a good chance you can nail it before the sub finishes. If the enemy doesn't cancel they lose the shipyard and whatever resources they put into the sub. Even if the sub finishes, if you have balls and micro you may still be able to destroy the shipyard while dodging the sub's torpedoes, but this is very risky.
If you see some other non-corvette start:
This is ideal, and you'd be surprised how many players have no corvette and no TL/DCL when your corvette gets there (even if you built TL/DCL first!). Pew-pew the shipyard with your corvette; unless the enemy is quick on the reclaim there's no way to save their shipyard. Hit any scout boats they may have first. If the enemy has conships trying to reclaim you and the unit under construction in their shipyard is not going to be helpful to their efforts in fending off your corvette, you may want to target the conships first; otherwise you'll probably want to hit the shipyard first. For some reason this effectively finishes 50% of randoms.
Aftermath
Ideally you will destroy the enemy shipyard and cons with your corvette. However, even if this happens, don't get too comfortable! The first duty of a sea player is to make sure that they REALLY control the sea. As soon as is economically feasible, I would recommend getting a sub over to the enemy shore; if they are scaring your corvettes away with capture and building TLs, you may want a royer instead. If their comm is still underwater, you can sometimes nail their boy, which of course is a HUGE bonus--you get 2500 metal, and they're most likely out of the game. A sub will also let you know about attempts from the enemy to get back into the sea without the enemy knowing that you can know.
If your corvette rush doesn't achieve this, then follow what LordMatt said. I'll leave the finer points of T1 ship combat for another time (and possibly someone else).
In any case, whether the corvette rush succeeds or not, don't stop putting pressure on the enemy until you are sure they are completely out of the sea. This will make it much more difficult for them to get back in.
AS SOON this is done, move onto the second duty of a sea player--helping their land allies the fuck out. The quickest (and therefore usually best) way to do this is building a hover factory followed by a group of scout hovers, then raiding the enemy bases with them. This is also a good way to learn if an enemy is building hovers. Again, you'd be surprised how often and well this succeeds; perhaps the opposing sea player tends to be lax in informing their allies that the enemy now controls their coastline?
TLDR
Rush scout boat and corvette. Use the scout boat to see if you can cripple the enemy with the corvette, and use the corvette accordingly.
Your first duty as a sea player is to make sure you control the sea.
Your second duty as a sea player is to help your land allies. This is often effectively accomplished by raiding with scout hovers.
Last edited by Evil4Zerggin on 10 Aug 2008, 14:54, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
That's the other thing, sea battles, even more than land battles, are all about managing the wrecks. This at least has not changed from OTA.Evil4Zerggin wrote: Leaving a corvette wreck on their doorstep is VERY BAD.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Cloaked mexes are very nice when you manage to EMP an entire army with them.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
This thread fails for (N) reasons.
1. You'll never be able to read it or find things easily in it
2. It sounds like you were releasing something. You weren't. Your title sucks.
3. Why not actually make something and put it in the wiki?
1. You'll never be able to read it or find things easily in it
2. It sounds like you were releasing something. You weren't. Your title sucks.
3. Why not actually make something and put it in the wiki?
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
or more appropriately on a BA website
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
fixed (kinda)Snipawolf wrote:This thread fails for (N) reasons.
1. You'll never be able to read it or find things easily in it
2. It sounds like you were releasing something. You weren't. Your title sucks.
3. Why not actually make something and put it in the wiki?
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Sea happens on 3 domains (ignoring land and air), Hover, Surface and Sub. Sub cant hit hover, hover cant hit sub, and anything that can hit hover cant hit sub, anything that can hit sub cant hit hover. Both can hit surface though.
Be aware of this and use it to your advantage. Hovers + Subs are a amazing because they each rape eachothers counters. Subs clear out vettes/FHLT, hovers clear out torps- both with total immunity.
On destroyer vs sub: Roy isnt that great vs subs without micro (im assuming noobs wont know how to do this- its mostly projectile dodging, but the roy moves like a cow). The best and most effective weapon vs subs is torpedo launchers and especially Depthcharge launchers, as subs have huge damage reduction on their weapons vs these structures and get eaten alive by them.
And of course, if the sea is full of subs, you can always just send hovers over the top, so thats a counter of a sort.
In 90% of teams games though, do as evil said. Just starting sea and rushing a vette will end it. And to counter that strategy just make a torpedo launcher in front of your fac (ensure it has good coverage and he cant sneak in the side and hit your fac!). Though rushing your own vette works fine too because you can repair it.
Sometimes the enemy wont go sea though, and will rather rush hovers. This can be hard to predict and take a sea player by surprise. Ensure you mex the sea fully and quickly if its uncontested, so you're getting your full economy. If the enemy has hovers, use vettes and radar to counter, FHLT's if there is a narrow beach (on long beaches though, it can be hard to defend using FHLT's).
Be aware of this and use it to your advantage. Hovers + Subs are a amazing because they each rape eachothers counters. Subs clear out vettes/FHLT, hovers clear out torps- both with total immunity.
On destroyer vs sub: Roy isnt that great vs subs without micro (im assuming noobs wont know how to do this- its mostly projectile dodging, but the roy moves like a cow). The best and most effective weapon vs subs is torpedo launchers and especially Depthcharge launchers, as subs have huge damage reduction on their weapons vs these structures and get eaten alive by them.
And of course, if the sea is full of subs, you can always just send hovers over the top, so thats a counter of a sort.
In 90% of teams games though, do as evil said. Just starting sea and rushing a vette will end it. And to counter that strategy just make a torpedo launcher in front of your fac (ensure it has good coverage and he cant sneak in the side and hit your fac!). Though rushing your own vette works fine too because you can repair it.
Sometimes the enemy wont go sea though, and will rather rush hovers. This can be hard to predict and take a sea player by surprise. Ensure you mex the sea fully and quickly if its uncontested, so you're getting your full economy. If the enemy has hovers, use vettes and radar to counter, FHLT's if there is a narrow beach (on long beaches though, it can be hard to defend using FHLT's).
Last edited by Saktoth on 10 Aug 2008, 03:29, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
Right now this is an Q&A thread, which is also very good.Snipawolf wrote:This thread fails for (N) reasons.
1. You'll never be able to read it or find things easily in it
2. It sounds like you were releasing something. You weren't. Your title sucks.
3. Why not actually make something and put it in the wiki?
A wiki later is a good idea, and we can move materials from this thread into it.
I know I've been doing most of the Qing around here, but I think those questions are very useful for newbies, and even people who are not newbies.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guide
That is a sweet idea!Saktoth wrote: Be aware of this and use it to your advantage. Hovers + Subs are a amazing because they each rape eachothers counters. Subs clear out vettes/FHLT, hovers clear out torps- both with total immunity.
I have never done that on sea, but I'll try it. :)
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Evil4Zerggin
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 16 May 2007, 06:34
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guides
Yeah, hovers + subs + air is a sea player's worst nightmare, although it's rare for even teams to manage to bring all three to bear against a sea player.
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guides
Here is an interesting question:
I know that if you're building so many stuff at the same time that you are stalling then it slows down the build rate.
My question is this: If I use several nanos to build ONE thing and as a result I get M or E stalling, will it be built faster if I'll use less and not stall?
Logic say that it won't, since when I stall I know that I'm putting all of my M and E poduction into whatever I'm building. If I'll decrease the numbers of con units working on it so there will be no stalling I'll in fact use less then my maximum building power on that project.
The advanced questions are of course what to do when you build several things at the same time (and if you should)
I know that if you're building so many stuff at the same time that you are stalling then it slows down the build rate.
My question is this: If I use several nanos to build ONE thing and as a result I get M or E stalling, will it be built faster if I'll use less and not stall?
Logic say that it won't, since when I stall I know that I'm putting all of my M and E poduction into whatever I'm building. If I'll decrease the numbers of con units working on it so there will be no stalling I'll in fact use less then my maximum building power on that project.
The advanced questions are of course what to do when you build several things at the same time (and if you should)
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Evil4Zerggin
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 16 May 2007, 06:34
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guides
AFAIK if you are stalling the resources are divided roughly proportionally to the buildpower you have going at each project. May check source later to see if this is actually the case.
In any case, you build fastest overall when you're spending all your resources. If you could build faster otherwise, you'd be spending less resources but building more--h4x!
In any case, you build fastest overall when you're spending all your resources. If you could build faster otherwise, you'd be spending less resources but building more--h4x!
Re: Balanced Annihilation Strategy guides
M stalling is ok, but if you stall e, then your mexes may not work, and then you have less m. That is why e stalling is baaaaaad, mkay?