Brainstorming rant

Brainstorming rant

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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Scratch
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006, 11:25

Brainstorming rant

Post by Scratch »

Seems as though our major mod has hit at wall, BA that is. I think we need some new ground breaking ideas to crack this problem. This should probably go into some kind of BA forum but for the last few months seems the web site has gone down.

Like I said aside from fine tuning balancing & adding features to the interface one at a time it doesn't seem anything is going on.

I propose that we start looking at some new units. Let's do a comparison here to SupCOM:

Taylors game offers insight into his new ideas - although BA has the Vulcan and Krog, still, tech 3 is nothing compared to SupCOM tech 3. Maybe we should start looking at making 100 unit transports... or even bigger weapons that the vulcan, such as that big artillery weapon they have in supcom now. There was a huge spaceship also in supcom. The biggest ship we have in BA is the Krow and thats nothing compared to what SupCOM has.

I realize due to the economic/unit balance vs. time curve in BA these huge units would be just about impossible to make, just as it is almost impossible to build a vulcan unless the game is a virtual joke.

Scale up the game accordingly, providing sort of a tech 4 economy and units.

The first problem that comes to mind is lag / sync errors. Well properly defined/designed units should avoid this problem.
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Neddie
Community Lead
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by Neddie »

I just think we should polish what there is with the current balance model and make a final release so we can free up some people to work on new, and legal, projects.
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HeavyLancer
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by HeavyLancer »

Scratch wrote:Seems as though our major mod has hit at wall, BA that is. I think we need some new ground breaking ideas to crack this problem.

......

Maybe we should start looking at making 100 unit transports... or even bigger weapons that the vulcan, such as that big artillery weapon they have in supcom now.
IN B4 SLEKSA!
Who is we? Last time I checked, BA was not a democratic mod. If you want crazy unit ideas implemented, go do some dev work on CA.
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hrmph
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by hrmph »

Yeah, it sounds like you should really check out CA. They are trying to take things in a new direction.

I think BA is aiming for more of a finished product, instead of constantly adding new features/units.
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smoth
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by smoth »

MAEK MUTATOR!
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Scratch
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by Scratch »

I had this feeling right after making the post. The resistance is of course on the part of the dev's, whos mod is close to perfect, i can sort of understand why they dont try this.

Just throwing it out there, TBH, the units I'm talking about are so big that even CA might not consider them.
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Scratch
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by Scratch »

HeavyLancer wrote:
Scratch wrote:Seems as though our major mod has hit at wall, BA that is. I think we need some new ground breaking ideas to crack this problem.

......

Maybe we should start looking at making 100 unit transports... or even bigger weapons that the vulcan, such as that big artillery weapon they have in supcom now.
IN B4 SLEKSA!
Who is we? Last time I checked, BA was not a democratic mod. If you want crazy unit ideas implemented, go do some dev work on CA.
The way to change this may be to produce something in CA that gravitates players towards it, when noobs see the big units they can get in CA, their eyes will grow big. Then everyone will switch to CA, or, by that time BA will catch up to meet it with a similar unit.

After all, the obvious thing is that there is competition between CA and BA, BA has the players, and is trying to keep them by matching CA feature by feature.
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smoth
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by smoth »

This sort of crap goes in mod discussion.
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lurker
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by lurker »

Mods forum policy wrote:Threads unrelated to content release, serious content critique or the difficulties of content development are not permitted here. If you have a question, poll or discussion which doesn't fall within one of these categories, take it to General Discussion or Off-Topic.
Guess not.
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smoth
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by smoth »

It is related to BA, and there is a sticky saying mod related discussion goes in the mod's thread. QUICK EMAIL GW FOR RULE CLARIFICATION!
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Scratch
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by Scratch »

What is general discussion for then?
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Google_Frog
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by Google_Frog »

I think the aim of BA is to hit a wall. There is almost no chance of this getting implemented try talking to the CA devs.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by Forboding Angel »

Scratch wrote:I had this feeling right after making the post. The resistance is of course on the part of the dev's, whos mod is close to perfect...
Perfect is such a relative term...
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KingRaptor
Zero-K Developer
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by KingRaptor »

Putting in LAWL KROGOTH OMGZ does not a good game make.

Moreover, as stated before, completely overhauling BA is the manifest opposite of everything it's done so far and ain't gonna happen.
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Saktoth
Zero-K Developer
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by Saktoth »

BA is a balance mod of AA. Thats all. Its not into new features. Its added NO new units, EVER, and has only ever even moved a unit in the tech tree TWICE if i recall (seaplanes and the resbot).

Its goal is to be a stable, release, 'gold' mod. Like a retail product, when they release a retail product they dont keep developing it do they? They release patches for balance issues and bugs. This is what BA is meant to be. Its meant to be as static and stable as possible so that everyone will know what to expect from it and get used to it. Its important, in a lot of ways, to have that stability and predictability, its what people expect from a game.

This is why CA was made. BA only scratches the surface of what is possible in a spring mod, it is totally closed to all the amazing innovations which are being made elsewhere in the community. Its totally closed to new units, new ideas. CA isnt. CA wants to push the boundries, totally re-balancing and re-rolling units under a new paradigm, but also adding tons of new and original features unique to CA (Though it also benefits the community- we are open source, anyone can take these features if they wish).
The way to change this may be to produce something in CA that gravitates players towards it, when noobs see the big units they can get in CA, their eyes will grow big. Then everyone will switch to CA, or, by that time BA will catch up to meet it with a similar unit.
Others have brought this up before. One of the strengths of *A, is you never REALLY get to the end of the tech tree. You never run out of options. There are always more tactics to employ, more units to use.

As much as massive super units attract noobs, they chase away experienced players (LLTA). The focus of the mod IS at the earlier levels, on a fast paced action-packed game, not on a proc to t3. In the end, the effort on these units is rather a waste- they so rarely feature in an actual game.
After all, the obvious thing is that there is competition between CA and BA, BA has the players, and is trying to keep them by matching CA feature by feature.
BA only matches CA's lua features, and then only a few.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by KDR_11k »

If you want more tech tiers grafted onto TA try LLTA or something.
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[Krogoth86]
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by [Krogoth86] »

If you want a BA with an extended tech-tree and a unit here and there where it makes sense plus experimental features even CA hasn't tried out yet wait for what right now is developed under the working title EXTENDED ANNIHILATION...

You won't find a series of super-duper Experimental units like flying saucers or something like that in it though. I also think that mentioning SupCom's T3 as something good is fail. SupCom has so many wholes in its Tech-Tree and especially T3 is the worst thing imo. With FA there have been some additions but only very little and so you to this day won't find a T3 mobile AA and stuff like that - not speaking of the total lack of any underwater / sea buildings...

You now also got to know that BA isn't meant to implent stuff like that. Don't blame it because of this - it just protects an excellent gameplay and if someone wants to change or add stuff you'll have to do it in your own mod which is one of the reasons I started working on "EXTA" in 2007...
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Gota
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by Gota »

You dnt really need bigger units..If a talanted modeler and texturer was to remodel t3 units they coul look awsome.
You can make a very nice Krog that will look much bigger yet remain the same size.
ATM its just a walking box...
There are a fe wnice ideas in supcom but there are good ideas in ba as well and they are different.
Stuff than i think can be added to BA without changing it drasticlly is an upgradable or morphable commander and one or 2 units per side to be changed so they can shoot water and land like the gimp(all those wont change the gameplay and if you want to make Ba more like supcom ud have to make conceptual changes).
Supcm has different stats especially the shooting ranges and speeds of units,plus in supcom labs are easier to build and you usually play air and land at the same time and sometimes even land air and sea.
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Sleksa
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Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by Sleksa »

IN B4 SLEKSA!
at first i wanted to make a decent reply, but then i realized these same topics get posted thrice a day, and replying them with the same answer is getting boring.

= [
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ZellSF
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Joined: 08 Jul 2006, 19:07

Re: Brainstorming rant

Post by ZellSF »

Saktoth wrote:BA is a balance mod of AA. Thats all. Its not into new features. Its added NO new units, EVER, and has only ever even moved a unit in the tech tree TWICE if i recall (seaplanes and the resbot)..
Juno.
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