The reason we should stick with one pure TA mod exclusively

[Sean Mirrsen]

For the reasons mentioned, and a crapload more, I say - OTA is the way to go.
But, even though it may be the way to go, it's not really our goal. Spring changes TA so much that no mod, be it AA, UH, or anything else, can can bring it closer to perfection by itself. We need not an EvoTA, but more along the lines of TA Evolution, TA upgraded and expanded. No existing mod has what we need, we need a coordinated effort to make a standardized Spring unit pack that will suit everyone. I had this idea once for Drones, but it seemed unnecessary at the time.

We need TA - but another thousand years into the future. Descendants of PeeWees with pulse cannons, heavy Void bombers, dual-barrel Eradicator laser tanks - that's the goal of Spring. A new and better TA, only faintly recognizable by a TA fan.

[PauloMorfeo]

...
Other changes i wouldn't mind seeing in XTA ...

Forgot to also add, the units Line Of Sight desperatly needs to increase. That's because of the built in automatic radar targeting giving a great advantage to radar jamming.
As it is now, and even if LOS is increased, the balance is dramatically changed. Firing far is much more important than it was before. Units like the Flash, are now most easily destroyed even before they get on range to fire.

[Dakar]

Many people worlwide have played total annihilation. They still have faint memory of what units rock, what unit are usless, that HLT are close ranged, that Guardian are built by level 1 cons, etc... That's why OTA must be the default mod. So people who are used to TA can play Spring and says "Wow, it's exactly the same, but in gorgeous 3D!" instead of saying "Meh, balance has been turn upside down, I can't play that!"

On the other hand, a new person might say "The only units I should build are missile units? What about the 70 others? This sucks."

The best way might be a small update to the client screen. Whenever somebody joins a game, in one corner it should display the version and a short blurb about it. For example, OTA might say "The original game. The primary focus is on missile units and Level 1" while ModThatMakesFleastheBest would have "Primary focus on clever usage of fleas."

[bmaciag]

TA != Spring

The engine will FAR exceed TA in due time. It's just nice that it uses TA units right now.

Once V3 is done and implimented, the separation will finally be complete. Units can be designed for Spring and only Spring, at that time. Higher poly count, better textures, maybe even new scripting options. All in due time.

But for now, do NOT say "TA Spring" because it isn't TA, it's Spring.

</rant>

Well I suppose if you are going to name a website "The TA Spring Project," have the link to that site be taspring.clan-sy.com, and call the forums "The TA Spring Project Forum" then you should probably understand why people call it "TA Spring." What we are talking about is, infact, TA Spring. If we wanted to refer to the engine, we would say "Spring" but if we are referring to the mod then it is suitable to say "TA Spring." It is TA for the Spring engine, quite logical if you ask me.

[mongus]

I had not read a word of this thread (but the poll), but im sure, this is only FLAME WAR!!!!! Where are my Pyros!!!!!

(of course, xTA's Spring Pyros)

[mufdvr222]

Many people worlwide have played total annihilation. They still have faint memory of what units rock, what unit are usless, that HLT are close ranged, that Guardian are built by level 1 cons, etc... That's why OTA must be the default mod. So people who are used to TA can play Spring and says "Wow, it's exactly the same, but in gorgeous 3D!" instead of saying "Meh, balance has been turn upside down, I can't play that!"

'WHAT HE SAID"



Its a no brainer really, OTA should be the default.

[Buggi]

[quote="bmaciag]
Well I suppose if you are going to name a website "The TA Spring Project," have the link to that site be taspring.clan-sy.com, [/quote]

Um...

Have you LOOKED at the URL?

And how about the text to the right.
*ahem*

"TA Spring is a project aiming to create a new RTS. The current goal is to make it run content from the game Total Annihilation."

Do I need to translate?

[zwzsg]

This site URL is indeed http://taspring.clan-sy.com as well as http://spring.clan-sy.com

[bmaciag]

Um...

Have you LOOKED at the URL?

And how about the text to the right.
*ahem*

"TA Spring is a project aiming to create a new RTS. The current goal is to make it run content from the game Total Annihilation."

Do I need to translate?

Yes, I have looked at it, and no, you don't need to. The fact that you just quoted it as being called "TA Spring" says it all. If you are so clueless as to why people refer to it as TA Spring, then there is your answer. We call it TA Spring for a reason, not simply because we were bored one day and thought it was a super cool name. Take the term "TA Spring" off of every title on the site and maybe you'll get what you want. It is obvious to us what the difference between TA, Spring, and TA Spring is, but when we want to refer to anything having to do with TA modding on the Spring engine, we will logically refer to it as TA Spring.

Do I need to translate?

[Doomweaver]

So do you guys think the default mod should be OTA, or OTA with some REALLY minor changes?
For example, these changes might include;

Slightly larger LOS, slightly larger radar coverage,
ever so slightly crapper Flash.

And that could be it. Or do we want a few more, i.e. a very minor mod that actually works to balance the game across the board.

[zwzsg]

OTA, with fixed scripts (for instance no sparkling, core adv kbots able to guard, solar that get their armor bonus, buzz that doesn't miss target when getting veteran accuracy), and possibly evolva models, or not, but with the exact same .fbi. Not even minor changes in the .fbi, just exactly the same .fbi.

[Shanjaq]

I like the idea of having default as OTA, and mods going in subdirectories so that a mod picker can be used to easily switch mods without destroying your Spring install.

[NOiZE]

I like the idea of having default as OTA, and mods going in subdirectories so that a mod picker can be used to easily switch mods without destroying your Spring install.

That would be great

[Subdino]

I like the idea of having default as OTA, and mods going in subdirectories so that a mod picker can be used to easily switch mods without destroying your Spring install.

Why would OTA be something different than a mod ?
A bunch of maps, a bunch of units, a bunch of missions,... That's equivalent to a mod, to me. And if Spring has to drop the "TA" prefix, it would better stand alone from those mods - while keeping compatibility.

Moreover, watch out for licence problems if you plan distributing the original TA files...

[Frog]

Doomweaver, are you under the impression that the majority of all Spring players favor OTA as default mod ?

[Doomweaver]

yeah, but I can't say I agree. Here's why.

If we want OTA to be the default mod, then when we make a mod with new units, we CANNOT balance the OTA units. i.e. it would be like using absolute annihilation without uberhack. Think really bloody carefully about this, because if we choose OTA as the default, then that's what we're stuck with. That basically means that we have to rely on TCs, because, no matter what you guys say, most units are useless in OTA.

XTA is needs to be trashed, I agree, because it changes the role of units. Some person who played TA a little a few years ago and comes to play XTA will be wondering why the balance is so effed up.

But with some minor changes to OTA we could create a game that plays the same, except without the flash rush being the #1 strategy, and without mobile artillery being COMPLETELY useless. I'm not saying we should make any crappy units good, just less crappy. If you want, we can leave every unit that is actually used the way it is, thus preserving the OTA gameplay. But on top of that, we could make Mobile Artillery do 30% more damage, underwater tanks have 15% more life, etc. Just minor changes that would remove the monotony from the game.

I am tired of OTA not because I am actually tired of the units - there is way too much variety to be sick of them. But i'm tired of always seeing the same units, and the same strategies. We are at the risk of creating another warcraft III, where one strategy prevails and the skill is all about how well you can micromanage.

I know micromanagement is part of the game, infact its an awsome part of the game, but it has gone too far.

[Neuralize]

This thread was created in vain.

[Doomweaver]

True, I thought people were a little brighter...

[Shanjaq]

well it has given us a thread to request some sort of mod switcher to avoid destroying the Spring install when you add one mod =p

[Buggi]

So do you guys think the default mod should be OTA, or OTA with some REALLY minor changes?

IMHO it shouldn't be ANY TA mod. It should be it's own entity. Start with your two commanders, and go from there. A fresh start. Call it SUP or something. The Spring Unit Pack can be fine-tuned to the new engine and can change with features as they're added to the engine.

I hate to say it, but when it comes to balancing and the dilema's faced therein. I would turn to the fundementals of Starcraft. Neither race had the overwhelming unit, they all had great balence to each other. It has a great model if you study it.

The only *type* of unit Spring lacks are sub-terranian units. A mole or ..something. Bring on the Lurkers Think "metal" spikes :-D

-Buggi