Map Metadata

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 27 Sep 2006, 07:48

Over in this thread discussion began about adding metadata to map SMD files.

This Metadata could contain such information as the author of the map, what mod(s) it is designed for, suggested player size, anything that people want to put in there. This could then be read by the lobby, unknown-files, any thing that dealt with maps basically.

What this thread is for is discussion of what format and what tags should be implememted in this metadata section. Im not a mapper, so I dont know everything that needs to be added to this, but here is my suggestions:

Code: Select all

[MAP]
	{
	//Other map info
	[META]
		{
		author=Maelstrom;
		mods=AA,XTA,NB,EE,G,WD;
		players=4;
		type=FFA;
		}
	}

The great thing about this is that Spring and the current lobbys will skip over any unknown tags, so they will both totally ignore the [META] section. That means this will not break compatibility if it was implemented right now.

Quanto042 · Post by **Quanto042** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:09

It sounds like a good idea, but at the same time I'm not sure if its really worth it at the moment. So far ur code seems to cover most of what i would think of. My biggest issue is actually the lack of a program to make start pos placement easier. I'm rather sick of having to estimate where my point will be after adding value "x" and value "y" all the time.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:13

Quanto042 wrote:It sounds like a good idea, but at the same time I'm not sure if its really worth it at the moment. So far ur code seems to cover most of what i would think of. My biggest issue is actually the lack of a program to make start pos placement easier. I'm rather sick of having to estimate where my point will be after adding value "x" and value "y" all the time.

??

you can even read the values in spring, or in any imageeditor that shows coordinates...

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:14

OK, ill make a start pos editor, give me a few minutes...

Back on topic please

Quanto042 · Post by **Quanto042** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:20

NOiZE wrote:
Quanto042 wrote:It sounds like a good idea, but at the same time I'm not sure if its really worth it at the moment. So far ur code seems to cover most of what i would think of. My biggest issue is actually the lack of a program to make start pos placement easier. I'm rather sick of having to estimate where my point will be after adding value "x" and value "y" all the time.
??

you can even read the values in spring, or in any imageeditor that shows coordinates...

But thats a lot of alt-tabbing and other stupid crazy stuff

Keep in mind i'm a lazy man who wants all his tools to be fancy-dancy and be able show the results as i'm using them

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:24

Quanto042 wrote:bblabalblablab

But thats a lot of alt-tabbing and other stupid crazy stuff

Keep in mind i'm a lazy man who wants all his tools to be fancy-dancy and be able show the results as i'm using them

[/quote]

just write it down, then type it in notepad takes 5 minutes to add 10 startpoints.

Quanto042 · Post by **Quanto042** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:27

NOiZE wrote:
Quanto042 wrote:bblabalblablab
But thats a lot of alt-tabbing and other stupid crazy stuff

Keep in mind i'm a lazy man who wants all his tools to be fancy-dancy and be able show the results as i'm using them

just write it down, then type it in notepad takes 5 minutes to add 10 startpoints.[/quote]

BUT I WANT A FANCY PROGRAM >_<!!!

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:29

Quanto042 wrote:
NOiZE wrote:
Quanto042 wrote: But thats a lot of alt-tabbing and other stupid crazy stuff

Keep in mind i'm a lazy man who wants all his tools to be fancy-dancy and be able show the results as i'm using them
just write it down, then type it in notepad takes 5 minutes to add 10 startpoints.
BUT I WANT A FANCY PROGRAM >_<!!!

IM MAKING ONE! CALM DOWN! BACK ON TOPIC!

Quanto042 · Post by **Quanto042** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:30

k.

btw, thanx!

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:31

Sorry, got a little annoyed there...

Quanto042 · Post by **Quanto042** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:36

Btw, with ur metadata, i have to ask how u intend the client or even spring proper to use it? That is if the devs take the time to take this new toy into account. And also, i've noticed ur mods tagline. How exactly would that affect things? I"m just curious as to the details in ur little plan here.

>_>
<_<

Post by **hollowsoul** » 27 Sep 2006, 12:25

Pretty sure jc already added an author tag for the new map format. Better poke tvo about it to add unitsync binding for it before release.

No need for Players tag. Can work that out via how many different starting positions there are. Have that already in UnityLobby

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 27 Sep 2006, 13:38

Ah but some maps have all 16 player spots posted when they are designed for like 3v3 and stuff. Take caydrs new map, I think its a 2v2 or 4 way FFA, yet it has 10 start positions in the file. Plus, it could also be extended to allow for team settings, like 2v2v2, 3v3, 4 FFA, or anything.

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 27 Sep 2006, 16:18

How about poiting on Similar Maps in the Meta - depending by Playstyle, Landscape, and or Player Number.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 27 Sep 2006, 16:30

But thats a lot of alt-tabbing and other stupid crazy stuff

Such laziness cannot be of this earth! HE'S A WITCH!!!

Code: Select all

[MAP]
   {
   //Other map info
   [META]
      {
      author=Maelstrom;
      mods=AA,XTA,NB,EE,G,WD;
      players=4;
      type=FFA;
      }
   }

Sounds really good, I can think of a thing or two to add but it'd be trivial. But like I said in that other thread, it should really be more specific about the mod... AA has many mutators, both some made by me and some made by others, and been updated many, many times. Maybe say the version of the mod it was designed for. If it was designed for a REALLLY old version, it could serve as a warning that there's a chance it won't work with X new version.

So a current map might have "AA211", for instance.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 27 Sep 2006, 16:38

One thing to consider is whether these things are intended to be machine-readable or human-readable. "mods=AA,XTA,NB,EE,G,WD;" might be fine for a person, but if U-F (for example) wants to provide links to the mods a map plays well on, that doesn't seem very useful.

Another possible consideration: how does the sync code handle unknown SMD tags? Does it completely ignore them, or will differences in unknown SMD tags cause desyncs? If it completely ignores them, then all kinds of interesting things become possible. With sufficient client support, users could be allowed to re-tag maps (for example, they might disagree with the creator of Maelstrom's Uber Map, and want to change things to remind them that it doesn't play so well under XTA, but is lots of fun with BT. It also means that map creators can update their map's metadata without releasing a totally new version.

Also, all metatags should be completely optional. Nothing should depend on having them set, but things should be able to take advantage of them when they're there.

Post by **jcnossen** » 27 Sep 2006, 16:48

Differences in unknown tags will cause different checksums. But I don't see why the map SMD should be different for different PCs anyway.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 27 Sep 2006, 18:39

All these tags need to do is provide the mods the map was designed for. However, with a metadata section, we mappers would also be able to put in descriptive tags that unknownfiles could sort by. I would suggest a standard for such tags:

Swampy: mix of water and land with various crossings -ex Oki River

Mountainous: resticted movement, with high heights and steep cliffs -ex Giant hills and valleys

Hilly: somewhat restriced, but units can generally get anywhere on the map -ex Whakamutunga Riri

Plains: flat, units can get anywhere important without trouble -ex hamburger hill, painted desert

Ocean: Nearly all water -ex shore to shore

Island: island map without landbridges -ex odd, I don't appear to have any of these in my maplist

Canyon: hazardous valleys with hard to reach walls -ex Severnaya Industrial

The mapper would be able to put more than one of these tags in his map to reflect its different types of terrain. Can anybody else think of any good tags?

Quanto042 · Post by **Quanto042** » 27 Sep 2006, 18:58

Decimator wrote:All these tags need to do is provide the mods the map was designed for. However, with a metadata section, we mappers would also be able to put in descriptive tags that unknownfiles could sort by. I would suggest a standard for such tags:

Swampy: mix of water and land with various crossings -ex Oki River

Mountainous: resticted movement, with high heights and steep cliffs -ex Giant hills and valleys

Hilly: somewhat restriced, but units can generally get anywhere on the map -ex Whakamutunga Riri

Plains: flat, units can get anywhere important without trouble -ex hamburger hill, painted desert

Ocean: Nearly all water -ex shore to shore

Island: island map without landbridges -ex odd, I don't appear to have any of these in my maplist

Canyon: hazardous valleys with hard to reach walls -ex Severnaya Industrial

The mapper would be able to put more than one of these tags in his map to reflect its different types of terrain. Can anybody else think of any good tags?

Oh awesome idea Deci! Its so simpse too, i mean like, even OTA had that, and that would excellent for not just us mappers, but AI coders could also use it to. Say they could create different schemes depending on the metadata on the map. It would help the AI understand what it needs to do to play well from map to map. Especially with a "metal" tag (at the moment, AIs don't take full advantage of the massive amount of metal that metal maps provide, so this would be really useful)

Thats just my two cents. Continue on.

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 27 Sep 2006, 20:53

If you want to sort maps, folders would be even more usefull.
like:
Spring\maps\FFA\
Spring\maps\ladder\
...

Spring RTS Engine

Map Metadata

Map Metadata