Quicksilver

Quicksilver

Discuss maps & map creation - from concept to execution to the ever elusive release.

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Cheesecan
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Quicksilver

Post by Cheesecan » 22 Jun 2013, 19:40

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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by hoijui » 22 Jun 2013, 20:03

nice! :-)
gonna play some vs AI games here.

btw... on springfiles.com, under License, it reads "Freeware / Free". should it not be "Public Domain" instead? is this a preset from springfiles?
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Cheesecan
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by Cheesecan » 22 Jun 2013, 20:28

Are you developing a new AI?

Springfiles only offers two choices:
Freeware
Demo / Shareware
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The Yak
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by The Yak » 22 Jun 2013, 20:59

Looks like a good 1vs1 map
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by Forboding Angel » 23 Jun 2013, 03:35

It seems a little simplistic, but I like!
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hoijui
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by hoijui » 23 Jun 2013, 09:03

Cheesecan wrote:Are you developing a new AI?

Springfiles only offers two choices:
Freeware
Demo / Shareware
no, i am not developing a new AI. playing spring games vs AI is my alternative to getting drunk, alone at home.

that are kind of strange choices, no?
especially for a field called "License".
well.. no need to make a drama, i guess.
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zoggop
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by zoggop » 24 Jun 2013, 07:00

hoijui wrote: no, i am not developing a new AI. playing spring games vs AI is my alternative to getting drunk, alone at home.

that are kind of strange choices, no?
especially for a field called "License".
well.. no need to make a drama, i guess.
^ genius
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dansan
Server Owner & Developer
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by dansan » 24 Jun 2013, 10:36

Very nice map!!

Springlobby and SpringFiles can both not preview the metalmap.
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Cheesecan
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by Cheesecan » 24 Jun 2013, 15:14

That is because neither of them can interpret lua metal maps.

But I didn't develop this map for 1 billion lobbies, so that is not really my problem.
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dansan
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by dansan » 24 Jun 2013, 15:39

Cheesecan wrote:That is because neither of them can interpret lua metal maps.

But I didn't develop this map for 1 billion lobbies, so that is not really my problem.
So... SL and SF should add an interpreter for lua metal maps?
Hmm... I'm guessing here: do not all lobbys use unitsync for this? Does any lobby show the metal map correctly?
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Cheesecan
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by Cheesecan » 24 Jun 2013, 18:13

Lua metal is not a part of unitsync api. It's not contained in mapinfo. It's a map gadget that is loaded ingame.

I also experimented with dynamic start positions. Start pos is part of mapinfo and it is used by unitsync. But I found that springlobby tended to crash sometimes while loading it so I gave that up. If it had worked better you could have had different start positions for say 1v1 ffa and 2v2 ffa. This could perhaps be done in a gadget also as an alternative.

The risk of having lua parsed by unitsync is that you could potentially cause errors in anything relying on it. E.g make a lobby or bot crash. Or worse. And the ones that use custom extraction of maps would not work. But these type of errors should be handled better in the first place when invoking a DLL.

Anyway, I never cared much for previewing metal so I don't really care. But I noticed ZK players seem to mind so I figure this could serve as an explanation.
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The Yak
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by The Yak » 24 Jun 2013, 18:19

There are advantages and disadvantages to both ways, but that's the exact reason why I always use image based metalmaps, it allows the end user to preview what the metal layout is without loading the map. Alternately one could just post a screenshot of the metalmap ingame (which I notice has been done with this map on Springfiles)
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Cheesecan
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by Cheesecan » 24 Jun 2013, 18:56

Besides me the only person to use this is SirArturri. It wasn't working that well before ingame so there were many reasons not to use it.

As it is now I think it works quite well. The one limitation ingame is that it can't handle terrain deformation due to clipping issues. I hope to get around to fixing this sometime. This only affects the widget not the gadget. The widget is not active for all games.

As for the metal preview, I think having to increase the size of the map by including a metal map is unnecessary when the information itself is better represented in text. Supporting it in every lobby would probably be possible if it saw more widespread use. So not using it is part of the problem.

I could have tried submitting patches for every OS lobby but I'm quite sure people would reject them on some grounds even if terrain deformation worked. There is a strong resistance to any sort of change in many places. So in the end you get diverging paths. I'm fine with that because it works for me.

Players may be unhappy with the result but they don't involve themselves to affect change. Most are content to play dsd over and over. I realized this a long time ago and since then I focus only on my own experience. Making some new stuff. If nobody wants to use it does not concern me anymore. It is more important to enjoy what you do, especially when something can be considered a hobby.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by Forboding Angel » 24 Jun 2013, 20:11

dansan wrote:Very nice map!!

Springlobby and SpringFiles can both not preview the metalmap.
Stop being silly... Use weblobby. http://weblobby.springrts.com

Or if you would like an app for it: http://goo.gl/r9zcg
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knorke
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by knorke » 03 Jul 2013, 14:55

weblobby does not show a metalmap preview either, like any lobby.
imo does not really matter.

1) nice layout.
2) The metalspots fade out when zooming..at medium distance they are already invisible.
3) The heightmap seems to be quite "clean", not such things as http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 00#p542366 which is good.
4) Though on some cliffs, for example in bottom left the ramp towards north, have this weird looking dip where the cliff starts. side view:

Code: Select all

high ground
xxx
xxx   dip
xxx  / 
xxx   xxxxxxxx low ground
xxxxxx
5) There are LOTS of features but somehow they do not stand out much. Maybe it is because the shades of green of trees/bushes are so similiar to the terrain they stand on.
6) In 3v3, three players complained of low FPS. Might be the many features, grass, lua metal or something else. So then we changed map....
I had bit lower than normal but playable.
7) Maybe put less features but make those much bigger. (for example the small bushes are hardly noticeable)


I also experimented with dynamic start positions. Start pos is part of mapinfo and it is used by unitsync. But I found that springlobby tended to crash sometimes while loading it so I gave that up. This could perhaps be done in a gadget also as an alternative.
Not sure what you mean by "dynamic" but for example in this map http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29663 this works:
(to put the startpositions in a nice "circle" without having to write down coordinates)

Code: Select all

local mapx=7168
local mapz=7168
local mapcx=mapx/2
local mapcz=mapz/2
local r = 2900
local i = 0
for x = -1,1 do
	for z = -1,1 do
		if not (x==0 and z == 0) then
		local xp = mapcx+ (r*x)
		local zp = mapcz+ (r*z)		
		mapinfo.teams[i] = {startPos = {x=xp, z=zp}}
		i = i+1
		end
	end
end
iirc I tested random startpos too but forgott if it worked :roll:

Code: Select all

 If it had worked better you could have had different start positions for say 1v1 ffa and 2v2 ffa. This could perhaps be done in a gadget also as an alternative.
I think that can only really work if the mod's spawn gadget is adjusted. (unless hax)
In Spring Tanks there is such system. https://code.google.com/p/springtanks/s ... artpos.lua

I do not see that becoming popular for existing games because startboxes are most commonly used. (afaik on springie only startboxes work)
Once setting/saving/loading startboxes becomes easy then players will be able to easily set all kind of start positions they want.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by zwzsg » 03 Jul 2013, 21:41

Cheesecan wrote:Besides me the only person to use this is SirArturri.
My HexFarm has the metal distribution and start positions generated ingame. I had to use a dirty hack for the start positions though, because mapinfo.lua was a bit too early for me to know where to place them.

Cheesecan wrote:I also experimented with dynamic start positions. Start pos is part of mapinfo and it is used by unitsync. But I found that springlobby tended to crash sometimes while loading it so I gave that up.
Can I see your code? I have ideas on how to fix it (make sure code is resistant to not having modoptions, using a simpler code path for unitsync than for Spring, ...)
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by CarRepairer » 08 Oct 2013, 00:11

SO CLOSE!

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smoth
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by smoth » 08 Oct 2013, 01:11

next engine version ought to resolve that though.
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Cheesecan
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by Cheesecan » 23 Feb 2014, 00:02

zero-k still uses 91 though.
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CarRepairer
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Re: Quicksilver

Post by CarRepairer » 25 Jun 2014, 16:50

smoth wrote:next engine version ought to resolve that though.
Filling the gap with a vertical wall doesn't make it look any more real. In fact I think it's worse because the water is now glaringly split at that point (bumpwater setting of course).
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