map creation question - Page 2

map creation question

Discuss maps & map creation - from concept to execution to the ever elusive release.

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ralphie
Posts: 426
Joined: 08 Jan 2007, 08:39

Re: map creation question

Post by ralphie »

I'd advise using the original mapconv and sticking with bitmaps, until you get the hang of it. It's far harder to mess it up that way.

You can get concerned about height map quality etc once you actually get a height map to work :P
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Beherith
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007, 16:21

Re: map creation question

Post by Beherith »

I would also advise against users mapconv. It is a major hassle to get it working; Artturi and I spent days just trying to get it to work, even then compilation is a non deterministic thing. Also I see no added feature or advantage that would make using it justifiable.

Mothers works fine for compiling 99% percent of the time, especially if you stuck everything to .bmp files and all your images are of the required sizes.

Edit:

Here is the complete package of tools needed to compile spring maps:
http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=861

Also, high quality heightmaps are very well supported: use greyscale 16 bit .RAW files with intel byte order and no interlacing. Remove the -l lowpass filter from your compilation parameters to get unmodified 16 bit heightmaps into spring maps.
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Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Re: map creation question

Post by Argh »

Here's the map. I fixed it using SMFED.

All I did was set lowest height to 0, highest to 500, took 30 seconds. It's fine, nothing was wrong with it.

BTW, I don't really recommend burning the shadows in, unless you're doing something tricky like building your own framebuffer system for shading Units in shadow. Spring's shadowmaps won't match, and the results look 'orrible.

Oh, and yes, I know you and SirArturri had some trouble getting user's version to run... meh, what can I say? If you can get it to run, and feed it the right image formats, then you don't have the gray line problem. If you use Mother's you not only have the gray line problem, but you have uglier compression settings as well. The difference in final quality is obvious.
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Gota
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Re: map creation question

Post by Gota »

Why compress...
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Pressure Line
Posts: 2283
Joined: 21 May 2007, 02:09

Re: map creation question

Post by Pressure Line »

feel like loading a 200MB uncompressed bitmap into your video memory?

i thought not. map textures are stored as dds, native compression blah blah blah...
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Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Re: map creation question

Post by Argh »

Well, it's that, and the sad fact that only DDS DXT1 actually works, when tested. I tried a DXT8888... it was beautiful but horribly buggy in Spring.
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Beherith
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Re: map creation question

Post by Beherith »

The grey lines? They are still there for me with users, thats why I said I saw no benefit from it.
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Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Re: map creation question

Post by Argh »

They are still there for me with users, thats why I said I saw no benefit from it.
If they're still there, you're using the wrong settings for the compressor. I use:

Code: Select all

nvdxt.exe -file temp\*.tif -nmips 5 -dxt1 -box -fadeamount 0
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Beherith
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Re: map creation question

Post by Beherith »

Hmm, thanks, ill give that a shot, cause my only gripe with mothers is the scanlines. Besides that its ye olde faithful.
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Gota
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Re: map creation question

Post by Gota »

Wasn't User all over this shit?releasing new features and gadgets and widgets..
marcel.lowrie
Posts: 13
Joined: 17 Dec 2008, 11:02

Re: map creation question

Post by marcel.lowrie »

Thanks for all the help guys. I got the highmap info to show up using SMFED.


Couldn't i just change that info here?

Code: Select all

mapconv.exe -l -x 101 -n 100
in the batch file?

Seeing as it doesnt work in the smd file?

BTW here is my smd if anyone can find a problem with the way im incliding the SMD info:

Code: Select all

[MAP]
{
	Description=;
	TidalStrength=15;
	Gravity=100;
	MaxMetal=2;
	ExtractorRadius=90;
	MapHardness=175;
	
	[SMD]
	{
  		minheight = 0;
  		maxheight =  2000;
	}

	[ATMOSPHERE]
	{
		FogColor=0.9 0.9 0.9;
		FogStart=0.5;
		CloudColor=0.85 0.7 0.7;
		SkyColor=0.1 0.2 0.9;
		SunColor=1 0.8 0.4;
		CloudDensity=0.2;
		MinWind=2;
		MaxWind=20;
	}
	[WATER]
	{
		WaterBaseColor=0.4 0.7 0.8;
		WaterAbsorb=0.004 0.003 0.002;
		WaterMinColor=0.1 0.2 0.3;
		WaterPlaneColor= 0.1 0.1 0.3;
		
	}
	[LIGHT]
	{
		SunDir=1 0.7 1;
		GroundAmbientColor=0.4 0.4 0.4;
		GroundSunColor=0.7 0.7 0.7;
		GroundShadowDensity=1;
		UnitAmbientColor=0.3 0.3 0.3;
		UnitSunColor=0.8 0.8 0.8;
		UnitShadowDensity=1;
	}
	// start positions:
	[TEAM0]{
		StartPosX=256;
		StartPosZ=256;
	}
	[TEAM1]{
		StartPosX=256;
		StartPosZ=768;
	}
	// you can create max 16 of these (15 is the highest number for TEAM)
	// positions are in pixels, StartPosZ = Y-coordinate
}
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Pressure Line
Posts: 2283
Joined: 21 May 2007, 02:09

Re: map creation question

Post by Pressure Line »

marcel.lowrie wrote: [SMD]
{
minheight = 0;
maxheight = 2000;
}
Argh wrote:[SMF]
{
minheight = -125;
maxheight = 175;
}
seems to be the problem.

btw. a max height of 2000 is gonna make your map look like the side of a cliff.

also better to 'pad' the minimum value a bit, so that minor terrain deformations dont make puddles (unless that is what you want...). just raise the max and min values by the same number (eg 100)
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Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Re: map creation question

Post by Argh »

Whoops! Pressure Line is correct... very sorry, it was very, very late and I wasn't at my "finest".

As for changing this, at compile-time:
mapconv.exe -l -x 101 -n 100
Yes, you can absolutely do it there. I just never do- I re-adjust it after creating it. Since height is such a big part of gameplay, I tend to adjust, re-adjust, etc., until it's just how I want it.
also better to 'pad' the minimum value a bit, so that minor terrain deformations dont make puddles
Well, or use:

Code: Select all

Voidwater=1; 
NotDeformable=1;
Then it can't get deformed, and you don't bother wasting CPU / GPU on water at all. Unless your game design requires being able to deform the map as part of gameplay, I strongly recommend turning that OFF, it's a big CPU cost savings.

Anyhow, so glad to hear that you're up and running, and good luck with your game :-)
marcel.lowrie
Posts: 13
Joined: 17 Dec 2008, 11:02

Re: map creation question

Post by marcel.lowrie »

Thanks again, suppose it was my fault all along.

As for terrain deformation, i'm glad there is a way to take it out. Seeing as with the way we are trying to save the gamestate and reload, deformation would be one of the things excluded.
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Pressure Line
Posts: 2283
Joined: 21 May 2007, 02:09

Re: map creation question

Post by Pressure Line »

Spring has load/save integrated. I'm not sure of its working status though.
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BrainDamage
Lobby Developer
Posts: 1164
Joined: 25 Sep 2006, 13:56

Re: map creation question

Post by BrainDamage »

save works, and saves everything

load .... used to work 'till 0.77 series since it started segfaulting ( crash ) 100% of the times
marcel.lowrie
Posts: 13
Joined: 17 Dec 2008, 11:02

Re: map creation question

Post by marcel.lowrie »

So we would have to use an older version to save/load correctly?

This working in multiplayer? Where can i look more into this?


EDIT: anyone know about launching spring.exe with cli options? to load a map from ip:port? Or if there is a cvar doc?
mmaura66
Posts: 23
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 18:06

Re: map creation question

Post by mmaura66 »

Hello,

I m making a map but, i can arrive to determine the good size.

i want to make same size than DeltaSiegeDry http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=180

Saying is 20x10 how does mean for Texture.tif ?

thx.
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genblood
Posts: 862
Joined: 19 Jan 2005, 03:37

Re: map creation question

Post by genblood »

Saying is 20x10 how does mean for Texture.tif ?

That would be a main texture of 10240 x 5120 ..
a metal map of 1281 x 641
a feature map of 1280 x 640
a height map of 1281 x 641
a type map of 1281 x641 (opinion) :mrgreen:
mmaura66
Posts: 23
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 18:06

Re: map creation question

Post by mmaura66 »

thank you
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