LOS Calculation.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 23 Mar 2006, 13:20

This is probably a Topic o' the Month point-winner, but I'm bringing it up anyhow.

Can we have "Circular" Line of Sight from OTA in Spring? Please? Because:

A. It's a lot less computationally intensive than the way it's being done now.
B. It would allow for mods where units could have unusually long LOS, for various reasons, without bogging people down.
C. It would add a different gameplay option that's non-lame.

Just a request... I won't even put it in Mantis, since I'm sure this was debated to death 10 months ago, but I thought I'd ask...

Masse · Post by **Masse** » 23 Mar 2006, 13:39

agrees

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 23 Mar 2006, 16:41

Having this option certainly can't hurt. Where would the option be defined, a mod file?

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 23 Mar 2006, 17:07

Having the ability for directionally limited LoS on a per unit basis (IE, can only see out the front) would be nice too.

I imagine this would be a lobby option, but per unit LoS-type configurability would be very helpful for modders.

*runs* aieee, MTR flamers!

SinbadEV · Post by **SinbadEV** » 23 Mar 2006, 17:16

currently LOS is spherical with terrain obstructing the view.
Are you requesting unobstructed sphearical LOS (aka, can see through hills) or unobstructed cylindrical LOS (can see through hills, basically can see anything within a given X/Z, through hills, and ignoring Y)?

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 23 Mar 2006, 17:17

Nemo wrote:Having the ability for directionally limited LoS on a per unit basis (IE, can only see out the front) would be nice too.

I imagine this would be a lobby option, but per unit LoS-type configurability would be very helpful for modders.

*runs* aieee, MTR flamers!

What Argh is pushing for is a less CPU-intensive mode of LoS. Conical LoS would be a step in the opposite direction.

patmo98 · Post by **patmo98** » 23 Mar 2006, 18:32

Argh wrote:This is probably a Topic o' the Month point-winner, but I'm bringing it up anyhow.

Can we have "Circular" Line of Sight from OTA in Spring? Please? Because:

A. It's a lot less computationally intensive than the way it's being done now.
B. It would allow for mods where units could have unusually long LOS, for various reasons, without bogging people down.
C. It would add a different gameplay option that's non-lame.

Just a request... I won't even put it in Mantis, since I'm sure this was debated to death 10 months ago, but I thought I'd ask...

Sound good, if you apply the same thing to radar and jammers

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 23 Mar 2006, 19:07

Argh wrote:This is probably a Topic o' the Month point-winner, but ...
... I'm sure this was debated to death 10 months ago, but I thought I'd ask...

Actually, i think not.
It was much discussed, however, the possibility of no fog of war (for performance reasons as well as LOS beeing, theoretically, the only possible cheat available).

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 23 Mar 2006, 19:11

FizWizz wrote:
Nemo wrote:Having the ability for directionally limited LoS on a per unit basis (IE, can only see out the front) would be nice too.

I imagine this would be a lobby option, but per unit LoS-type configurability would be very helpful for modders.

*runs* aieee, MTR flamers!
What Argh is pushing for is a less CPU-intensive mode of LoS. Conical LoS would be a step in the opposite direction.

Conical LoS as an option for modders. For example, if I have a sniper unit, it needs to have huge LoS, but it shouldn't be able to see in a perfect circle. Obviously it wouldn't be applied to every unit, or if it was unit numbers would be limited, ect. Even more helpful would be the ability to define in a unit's .fbi what kind of LoS it uses, or what portion(s) of the full LoS circle it can see.

Actually, I'm not sure how it is a step in the opposite - if you can only a slice of the full LoS circle is shown, then Spring has fewer things to render. The calculation might be a little slower than the current one, but I think it would balance out.

Argh is looking for permanently round LoS, unobstructed by terrain, similar to circular LoS in OTA.

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 23 Mar 2006, 19:47

alright, conical LoS as an option for modders isn't bad. However, it is still more CPU consuming.

Currently LoS is obstructed by terrain. That means that the computer checks to see what units are inside the LoS range of unit X, and then it does another check to see if terrain obstructs the vision. Conical LoS would add one further check, to see if the units that satisfy the previous requirements are also inside the cone of sight as well.
To condense what I said:
Current Checks: (1)Range (2)Terrain
Argh wants: (1)Range
Nemo wants: (1)Range (2)Terrain (3)Conic or (1)Range (2)Conic (3)Terrain

Am I correct in saying this, or is LoS computed some other way?

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 23 Mar 2006, 19:57

heh, can I have a pony too? <_<

Argh is looking for performance, I'm hoping for mod flexibility. Performance should take precedance here, so I'm content to wait.

Soulless1 · Post by **Soulless1** » 23 Mar 2006, 20:07

Personally I think the current terrain-limited LoS and radar are one of the best features of this game. I can understand why some modders might want to change things up (so it'd be good to have the option), but I just don't see myself getting into games where the host just sets circular LoS.

Come to think of it though, I don't think the current 'L' view shows the LoS being blocked by terrain (correct me if I'm wrong) - IE; while the green area for radar shows its true limits, the 'lit' area to show LoS always seems to be circular, even if the LoS itself doesn't extend around a blocking terrain piece. Could this be corrected, so that the lit area follows terrain as well?

While I'm asking, does anyone know what the other highlighted area represents? I refer to the dimly lit area which is usually slightly larger than a unit's LoS, but smaller than its radar range.

GrOuNd_ZeRo · Post by **GrOuNd_ZeRo** » 24 Mar 2006, 02:46

I figured why in WD aircraft are seen most of the time, the commander has a VERY large LOS but it can only go so far on the ground, but is unlimited to the air, just to let everyone know.

I do think the suggestions are good ones, I esspecially agree with the conical vision since that would add alot to alot of mods, and IMO is alot more realistic, it would actually be good for radar too, i'll give some examples:

-One part defined on the unit determines what part is the radar emitter, where ever it point, where ever the radar is scanning, like a real radar, so the spinning dish actually is doing something and radar is alot more realistic.
-Aircraft almost never have 360├é┬░ radar, they usually have conical radar that points forward, some aircraft like the SU-27 have a rearward facing radar and can actually shoot backwards as well, so multiple radar emitters would be good too.

I already mentioned the conical view before and I highly agree with that.

Also I would like a No LOS feature, a circular LOS would be cool as well.

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 24 Mar 2006, 04:17

Circular los would suck but be easy to code probably, I would prefer they improved the current los calculations first since they are a big cpu hog.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 24 Mar 2006, 04:33

Circular LOS doesn't "suck". Be more open-minded... there are good reasons to want this, and I listed several of them... just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean jack squat to those of us who would

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 24 Mar 2006, 04:38

I'm not saying you can't have it, I'm just saying it seems silly having stuff seeing through hills. Ideally you'd make this a FBI thing though, that way you can have advanced radar able to see through hills as an exception or something, but an on/off client option would remove alot of strategy.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 24 Mar 2006, 04:46

Right on. Or have a game where everybody has LOS-ignoring radar, but "sight" obeys standard logic, or... etc. There are all sorts of variations available, and some of them might be fun. Kind've like how the Wolf in NanoBlobs has the longest LOS and is Stealth... it's little "tricky" things like this that are useful to have around

diggz2k · Post by **diggz2k** » 24 Mar 2006, 10:37

I think it would make long games with aircon spamming run much smoother. Maybe you could have regular los and radar until game performance starts to lag and then it switches to the faster los/radar computation.

Chocapic · Post by **Chocapic** » 24 Mar 2006, 15:00

Argh wrote:Circular LOS doesn't "suck". Be more open-minded... there are good reasons to want this, and I listed several of them... just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean jack squat to those of us who would

i think that if we'd have circular LOS implemented only, there would be a large dozen of ppl complaining about this in the view of wanting some real terrain LOS (lol)

patmo98 · Post by **patmo98** » 24 Mar 2006, 17:28

Chocapic wrote:I think that if we'd have circular LOS implemented only, there would be a large dozen of ppl complaining about this in the view of wanting some real terrain LOS (lol)

I agree with you, but I do think there is a reason that this was in OTA.

Spring RTS Engine

LOS Calculation.

LOS Calculation.

Re: LOS Calculation.

Re: LOS Calculation.