PLZ HELP fix this behavior

PLZ HELP fix this behavior

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triton
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PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by triton » 11 Mar 2018, 22:36

Image
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Silentwings
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by Silentwings » 11 Mar 2018, 23:25

It looks as though the ship has been given a move order to a location that it can't actually reach. What do you think is wrong?

Without a short demo that reproduces the behaviour, can't say anything further.
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triton
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by triton » 11 Mar 2018, 23:39

Well, this happenned here : http://replays.springrts.com/replay/549 ... 107011b24/
But this happens in every game with ships.
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Silentwings
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by Silentwings » 11 Mar 2018, 23:59

I am not watching a 38 minute replay. I am happy to watch a 30 second replay. Also:
What do you think is wrong?
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triton
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by triton » 12 Mar 2018, 00:47

what is wrong?



everything almost? the shaking, the fact he's sliding stupidly and keep his speed while in collision? Can't collision set speed to 0? Units can turn while immobile. Also the ships shouldnt try to reach a point he can't, until the end of game.

If u wanna try to see this bad behavior, start a game alone, use cheat command, put a battleship close to shore and move it.
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Silentwings
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by Silentwings » 12 Mar 2018, 01:58

The ship does not collide with any other units in your gif. Afaics all that is involved is interaction with impassable terrain. Here is the long version of viewtopic.php?f=11&t=36754#p585263 :

I suspect that what you're seeing is the normal behaviour for when a player repeatedly makes a unit move into a place where that unit cannot go: it shakes/bounces off back into where it can move again.

A move order into impassable terrain does not cause the effect you display if the destination is fully in impassable terrain - in that case the unit moves in as close as it can reasonably go and then stops gracefully. However, if the destination is on or very near the borderline of impassable terrain, the unit will try to push right in and hope for the best.

From your gif, I am unable to tell with any certainty if there is a player spamming/on-repeating move orders onto the borderline of impassable terrain, and am also unable to see the passability map of the ship, or the shape of the sea bed. It's not clear which BA version you're using, so I also cannot readily check unit stats... a gif conveys far less information than a short replay could.

If my guess is correct, it seems sensible to report this to mantis if you think it is a bug, or want to make a feature request for different treatment of move orders directing units onto the borderline of impassable terrain; you should include a short replay that you have created to replicate the behaviour.
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triton
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by triton » 12 Mar 2018, 03:43

I am not stupid, the player is not spamming, its standard behavior we have since month and month in 103 104 everywhere.
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Silentwings
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by Silentwings » 12 Mar 2018, 03:55

K, in that case for me to look any further a short replay which replicates the behaviour (without having to watch a game) is probably needed. My attempt to replicate your gif without spamming move orders, on the map I was making at the time, was not very successful.
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OPAdolfSatan
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by OPAdolfSatan » 12 Mar 2018, 06:08

triton wrote:Image

By the looks of it, Triton tried to buff up that destroyer with the ability to walk on land GG. Fix one thing break 10 things, pretty good ratio.
"It's still a test"

Also when are we going to have turrets to kill all upcoming unit micro? Since devs so what called buff and nerf some aa to kill air thats already hard to micro. We just need some land defences too like a tower that kills all upcoming scouts of 2000 range its the way to fix ba IMO. This will help every new player or players who cant kill units that are well managed,so micro is no longer need in BA just in BA.
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triton
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by triton » 12 Mar 2018, 06:45

Thx for your help adolf, you are the best. <3
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Kloot
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by Kloot » 12 Mar 2018, 15:22

Can't collision set speed to 0? Units can turn while immobile.
It could, but units constantly stopping dead in their tracks would be extremely annoying.
Also the ships shouldnt try to reach a point he can't, until the end of game.
Here the waypoint *was* theoretically reachable, but placed in shallow water. Collision detection kept pushing the ship away because (while trying to approach this point) its *footprint rectangle* started overlapping the non-traversable shoreline, an edge condition that can easily be detected by a Spring.TestMoveOrder query.

These problems were anticipated long ago, so there is a MoveDef key called "allowTerrainCollisions" which controls whether collision handling takes the entire footprint into account or not. Unfortunately setting it to false carries a risk of units getting stuck on terrain more often, which is up to you to weigh against the impact of seeing jittery movements every now and then.
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raaar
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by raaar » 13 Mar 2018, 02:57

I agree with OP and complained about this in the past too.

This is an engine fail. It makes spring engine physics look broken.

Such fails also happen for land units when turning near impassable terrain.

If something causes a unit to move slighty into impassable terrain, it should gently slide back to passable terrain, and how it's done could take into account the unit's limitations in terms of velocity, turnrate, acceleration.

Is this reported as an issue on mantis?
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Manoa
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by Manoa » 12 Apr 2018, 07:33

this ship problem don't look so good, it is mega lol but we don't wanne spring to be a game for lol, this option of mod option is not mutch of a option, neither of them are good options, I know you guys engine programmers look at this like a small problem and it the true - it is small problem, but the game is made from many small things and user experience is a big thing made from small things :)
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Kloot
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by Kloot » 12 Apr 2018, 13:50

This has already been fixed in upstream maintenance builds.

All BA needs to do is update, we can not help further.
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triton
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by triton » 12 Apr 2018, 19:50

This video is from 104.1-399-ga506a03 maintenance : Image

Is it possible for us to improve this behavior, like something a bit more realistic?
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Silentwings
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by Silentwings » 13 Apr 2018, 00:23

something a bit more realistic?
You are trying to sail a large ship into shallow coastal water & dry land - perhaps a loud cracking noise followed by an expensive salvage operation?
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PtaQ
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by PtaQ » 13 Apr 2018, 08:42

Don't forget to involve a love story plot too!
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Anarchid
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by Anarchid » 13 Apr 2018, 12:59

A massive improvement would be for this sliding behaviour to obey unit's maxVelocity constraint. Very often units will suddenly obtain momentary speeds that are much larger than what they are able to do when walking in a straight line.

This is extremely jarring and i don't think it's required for the sliding pathing mechanism to work.
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triton
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by triton » 14 Apr 2018, 04:29

Another weird behavior we have since months, is it BA10 related? Can you help here? We have this issue on every engine version.

It's just 5 stumpies + 1 move order
Image

P.S : this issue doesn't only affect stumpies ^^
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triton
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Re: PLZ HELP fix this behavior

Post by triton » 16 Apr 2018, 12:44

Image

2 heavy tank stucked forever

Image

1 corvette stucked forever, issue happenned on latest maintenance engine version.

It would be awesome to organize a discussion between Doo and some engine devs.
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