Why single thread is en of spring for me - Page 6

Why single thread is en of spring for me

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raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 784
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by raaar » 18 Jan 2014, 17:06

i don't like causing drama.

but this stuff isn't black and white, and can have long term negative consequences.

and yea, i agree Zerver's behavior is shady. there's an gpl violation site with an annoying propagandistic tone. It also has a black background (yikes!).

Maybe the other devs were too harsh on him. It seems he used the spring repository so the code was public at some point but his branch was removed. He complained against removing MT branch from the Spring repository.

Pretending it doesn't exist hoping zerver's vesion dies out seems shady as well. It may work, it may not work..What if Timmy, Mary and Schmuckel join him and make it work with a concurrent "official server". What if those cooks start arguing with each other and three years from now Schmuckel starts his own shady version?

Do you know how many linux distros exist atm? How did it all start?

And they adhere to standards. They can communicate with each other.

Spring rts is a more specific thing, different engines won't sync with each other, often not even different versions of the same engine.
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malric
Posts: 515
Joined: 30 Dec 2005, 22:22

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by malric » 18 Jan 2014, 17:19

raaar wrote: Maybe the other devs were too harsh on him. It seems he used the spring repository so the code was public at some point but his branch was removed. He complained against removing MT branch from the Spring repository.
Spring repository is hosted on a public site, github. Anybody can create new projects there. The only thing "removed" was that when people get spring sources to work/lookat them/compile, they will not get the modifications zerver did. Zerver can create 100 other repositories that include his modification and they will be available on the same site, "one click" away.
raaar wrote: Do you know how many linux distros exist atm? How did it all start?
By people sharing code and attracting/convincing other people to work with them. And I think it is a very healthy model.
raaar wrote:i don't like causing drama.
So what do you want? You are free to play zerver's version. You are free to help him. You are free to install a forum for him. The current spring developers prefer not to work with him, and given their effort is for "free", I would say it is nice to respect that.
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raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 784
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by raaar » 18 Jan 2014, 17:54

malric wrote:
raaar wrote: Maybe the other devs were too harsh on him. It seems he used the spring repository so the code was public at some point but his branch was removed. He complained against removing MT branch from the Spring repository.
Spring repository is hosted on a public site, github. Anybody can create new projects there. The only thing "removed" was that when people get spring sources to work/lookat them/compile, they will not get the modifications zerver did. Zerver can create 100 other repositories that include his modification and they will be available on the same site, "one click" away.
Yes, seems he didn't do it, that's kinda shady (maybe lazy). It was still kind of mean and dismissive (having his lump of code there didn't really force the other devs to spend time on it).
malric wrote:
raaar wrote: Do you know how many linux distros exist atm? How did it all start?
By people sharing code and attracting/convincing other people to work with them. And I think it is a very healthy model.
Sharing and Attracting. Positive words there. How about clashing, splitting and breaking away. How about critical mass considerations? Segregation?
malric wrote:
raaar wrote:i don't like causing drama.
So what do you want? You are free to play zerver's version. You are free to help him. You are free to install a forum for him. The current spring developers prefer not to work with him, and given their effort is for "free", I would say it is nice to respect that.
I agree. I respect the work current devs do for free. We should give them some slack even when they are somewhat mean. But that should apply to zerver as well.

what i wanted was to steer the conversation into something that made people (gently) push the devs into working together again (they might get along eventually) without envolving myself too much (troublesome). This increases the odds of we having a better Spring versions, faster, and less segregation and confusion about different engines.
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AntiAllez
Posts: 105
Joined: 06 Mar 2012, 18:22

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by AntiAllez » 18 Jan 2014, 18:16

Anarchid wrote:
You are talking about here seriously
Your statement doesn't parse. But in case you didn't know, shortly after one of those failed propaganda attempts, rtpms.com had its dns cloaked, and i can't imagine any other reason why.

the result of ddos attacks IMHO
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100Gbps
Posts: 73
Joined: 30 Jan 2009, 13:19

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by 100Gbps » 19 Jan 2014, 22:06

smoth wrote:No. I am asking you to cite your claim.
You are free to check cited claims named benchmarks in Google.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Forboding Angel » 20 Jan 2014, 13:34

Zerver stole spring code essentially by putting out his little project and making it closed source. This is against the license. Period. End of story.

If he releases the source, then I imagine the ban on his silliness will be lifted as well.

Legally, zerver could be sued via the EFF by the spring team because of what he has done. If he makes his code available, he is no longer in violation of the spring engine license.

It's not a hard concept to understand. I realize that for people who think that stealing the assets from a game and throwing it in an entirely different engine is A-OK might have some trouble understanding how licenses work though.
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Anarchid
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Anarchid » 20 Jan 2014, 14:14

the result of ddos attacks IMHO
1) What ddos attacks?
2) How will cloaking your identity prevent a DDOS attack? Your IP is still known, your server accessible to whatever loads that can be leveraged.

It's your identity that you cloak, hiding the entries for "who bought this domain", etc.

And the only thing you can protect against with this? Is some kind of lawsuit or direct action against owner, especially if said owner happens to be in license violation and this would make a C&D quite easy otherwise.
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AntiAllez
Posts: 105
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by AntiAllez » 20 Jan 2014, 17:14

before you consider about such waste of resources, plz purge the unmitigated project or we can read it on wikipedia into future like that crap:SCOvsLinux or on many other countries SCOgegenLinux its like to open Pandoras box. And no, you cannot stop ddos with cloaking but certainly belongs to a complete defense package. But this is not any longer my part here and ´m so out of the topic. I currently know nothing what I could contribute to the explanation because the discussion is drifting into such litigation. OAO
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Anarchid
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Anarchid » 20 Jan 2014, 17:17

SCOvsLinux
I wonder who's the closed source scum trying to capitalize on an open source project is in this case.
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albator
Posts: 866
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 14:20

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by albator » 08 Aug 2014, 20:21

The problem was I was using statics builds. They are much slower than the version form the repositories
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Jools
XTA Developer
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Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 16:29

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Jools » 09 Aug 2014, 12:15

This whole dispute has been going on for quite a time, I wish something could be done to try to find a solution to it. It would be beneficial for the whole community.

I understand that the fork needs to disclose the source code according to the GPL license. What I haven't heard are why this can't be done.

Likewise, I haven't heard any reasons why various people want the source code, why they need it and what they will do with it, other than it must be released according to the GPL.

Why not just release it? And why not just explain what it is needed for? And then we all can get along.
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Anarchid
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Anarchid » 09 Aug 2014, 15:06

What I haven't heard are why this can't be done.
This question seems to always be left without answer.
why they need it and what they will do with it
Ugh? Pretending on a serious answer:

To be able to improve it without sanction from the only guy with the source, for example.

An obvious use case would be, for example, to cherry-pick all the new convenient things that happened to upstream, including bugfixes where applicable.

(there's of course that part about "checking that it contains nothing evil")

Additionally, aside from "merely GPL", any project that ever intends to deal big (*cough* Steam) would do well to protect themselves against any major sources of IP-based litigation risks, and knowingly adopting an engine in violation of GPL basically enables every Spring developer ever, including ones no longer active or employed by possibly competing game studios, to sue you for 100500 moneys.
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AntiAllez
Posts: 105
Joined: 06 Mar 2012, 18:22

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by AntiAllez » 09 Aug 2014, 22:30

I think the trenches are drawn, the mt wasnt welcome and the fork goes its own routes. Dont try to revive an undead.
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Funkencool
Posts: 542
Joined: 02 Dec 2011, 22:31

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Funkencool » 10 Aug 2014, 10:34

AntiAllez wrote:I think the trenches are drawn, the mt wasnt welcome and the fork goes its own routes. Dont try to revive an undead.
It could legitimately be a fork if the source code was released.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.htm ... stedPublic
But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL.
Unless of course it has been, either way I'm sorry I repeated the obvious :?
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rattus
Posts: 6
Joined: 09 Nov 2013, 18:48

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by rattus » 13 Sep 2014, 02:20

Jools wrote:This whole dispute has been going on for quite a time, I wish something could be done to try to find a solution to it. It would be beneficial for the whole community.
I also stopped playing after version 94 due to no MT. This conflict had a chance of being resolved within the first month maybe, but now there is no chance.

If someone put up a host with BA and Spring 91-94 I would start playing again.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10157
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by PicassoCT » 13 Sep 2014, 12:09

I hold myself hostage, i have a banana up my ear, and will continue to push it into the brain, if you dont weight arguments the way i do.

Its a little sad, but sometimes bleeding edge versus maintainability is decided by the masses - and the masses voted on- staying out of your fight and play with 91.0.

Damn the masses, those stoopid sheep need a brutal stalin, to shove them towards happiness.
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
Posts: 3359
Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by CarRepairer » 13 Sep 2014, 20:02

rattus wrote:If someone put up a host with BA and Spring 91-94 I would start playing again.
All you have to do is say the magic words and magic genie will appear and be your host for you, for any game version and any spring version you desire. His name is springie. The magic words begin with !spawn.
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Jools
XTA Developer
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Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 16:29

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Jools » 13 Sep 2014, 22:04

Well, I don't think versions 92 and 93 exist.
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100Gbps
Posts: 73
Joined: 30 Jan 2009, 13:19

Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by 100Gbps » 14 Sep 2014, 19:00

PicassoCT wrote:I hold myself hostage, i have a banana up my ear, and will continue to push it into the brain, if you dont weight arguments the way i do.

Its a little sad, but sometimes bleeding edge versus maintainability is decided by the masses - and the masses voted on- staying out of your fight and play with 91.0.

Damn the masses, those stoopid sheep need a brutal stalin, to shove them towards happiness.
I'm sure you miss the point that your posts sometimes are the nastiest forum-written brain-waves of a person who's involved in Spring development.

zer_ver was right to not open his MT code ... "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"

User was warned for this post - Felony 1

-- FLOZi
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