50b2 bugs

50b2 bugs

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Gnomre
Imperial Winter Developer
Posts: 1754
Joined: 06 Feb 2005, 13:42

50b2 bugs

Post by Gnomre »

These are just the ones I noticed in my game while testing the "AI" I released in the other forum:

The Warlord's turrets are now inverted. Artillery fires from the laser turret, lasers from the artillery turret. They both work fine technically, but it looks really odd. It didn't do this in prior versions (well, I didn't test a warlord in 50b1, so I don't know about that one).

Units are VERY stubborn about fire orders now. I couldn't get any (except the nuker) to suppress fire, and Intimidators flat out ignored my orders. One of my Timmies wouldn't even fire at all, I had to reclaim it :P

It was very frustrating to not have my units do what they were told...
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NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Post by NOiZE »

make sure timmy's don't hav to fire true your units sphere's

are u using OTA... if so than that issue was already found in thread: http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1205

but no one seemed intrested in that thread really.
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Gnomre
Imperial Winter Developer
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Post by Gnomre »

Thing is, I'm using zwzsg's OTA patch, not EvOTA, and the Warlord worked fine in previous versions...
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NOiZE
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Post by NOiZE »

if u really carefully read that thread i stated that problem also occurs with the OTA patch and i tested that in the 41b1 version.

EDIT

and i contacted zwzsg about it, but he wasn't really intrested in fixing it..
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Min3mat
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Post by Min3mat »

you are right noize noone cares :cry: about :cry: evota :cry: or :cry: ota...just give up your roots and your souls guys for crying out lud whats wrong with OTA in spring...400kb download...slashers and defenses no longer OP due to the fact they can't fire over each other...and another thing OTA ACTUALLY HAS A TECH TREE!!! :evil: stupid xta (no offense to SYs) :evil: stop playing it ppl the tarnish it puts on your souls ain't worth it! God'll ask u whether u played xta and if u say yes hell tell u to fuck off and the devil will be like :twisted: so STOP PLAYING THIS EVIL!!! :?
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Masse
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Post by Masse »

i got this little bug in OTA Spring... not sure does it occur in XTA Spring...
just look at the health of that A.K.
Image

and go here if u wanna see more screenshots http://koti.mbnet.fi/u_engine/pictures/spring/
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NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Post by NOiZE »

the "UBER" AK :D
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08

Post by zwzsg »

NOiZE wrote:and i contacted zwzsg about it, but he wasn't really intrested in fixing it..
You know, my little patch OTA_settings_for_spring_patch.ufo only contains text files: the text files to describe weapons & units stats (things like rate of fire, damage, range, speed,...), and the text files to describe builtree.

OTA_settings_for_spring_patch.ufo does not contain any script. It does not contains any model either. Unless the Swedish Yankspankers went as far as adding new weapons, switching weapon1 and 2, or changing tags like turret=1; I don't see how could my patch can't break anything! I took special care in leaving XTA .3do and .bos in case they were adapted for Spring (it turns out apparently they haven't).

Before blaming my OTA patch, make sure the problem really isn't there also in XTA.



As for evolva models patches, they're not mine. When someone posted that he found some high poly version of TA models in TAAN site, I merely pointed out that the TAAN site had been butchered and was only a shadow of his former glory, that the evolva page had been reduced to 19 units, but that FU had kept a file containing the whole 77 TAAN evovla units. Those are just new .3do, with the same piecenames as the old .3do, but with more details. They're supposed to work with OTA scripts. Many people have used them fine in TA, even hardcore online players, without problems. So in TA, they work fine. I don't know if they remade the models and scripts for XTA. If they don't, then evolva units should work fine. If no, only very tiny problems could happen, like the recoil moving the barrel too far is the model has been shrinked. The worst they could do is firing from the wrong place if the model tree has been reworked. Or maybe a bit worse if XTA models have less pieces than the orignal ones, but that's very unlikely. It must also be noted that some TAAN people have given sign of activities, right here in spring forum. So I would be best if it was themselves who handled any issue with the TAAN models, don't you think?

evOTA is a pack made by webbie, which contains OTA_settings_for_spring_patch.ufo + evolva 3do + a few maps.


I played a few games with OTA_settings_for_spring_patch.ufo + evolva models. No units made a crash, and they all seem to fire and generally behave well. However it's true that I haven't individually checked all and every units. So my position now is: it works well enough not to disrupt play, which is good enough for me. I don't really care if a few units fire from the wrong piece or look a tad odd when scrutunised under a microscope, I'd only care if it crashed, or affected the gameplay, or was obvious. I also think that most problem will be corrected with newer Spring releases, since the Spring FAQ states thate the first goal of spring is to "Reach a stage where TA Spring can flawlessly execute most of Total Annihilation's original gameplay, with its original units in their original format."

I don't have the tool to compare lots of files at once, but if anyone does, go compare:
- OTA script and XTA scripts
- OTA models and XTA models

I asked Fnordia "Do anyone know if the XTA scripts are any different from OTA script and if the difference are for rebalancing, are compulsory for making them work in Spring, or are just to fix annoying bugs that show in both spring and TA?", and he said he should ask yxan and gave me his ICQ, but I seem to have problem making my ICQ work and haven't asked him.

In short:
- I deny that OTA_settings_for_spring_patch.ufo and evolva 3do cause problems.
- If they do cause problem, then the SY are to blame.
- If blaming the SY don't suffice you, why not blame the TAAN people or even Webbie?
- Works fine enough for me, so I'm not going to spend days fixing it.


Oh and the bug in Masse picture also happen in TA, so it's faithful to the orignal. For info, in TA this very rare bug is triggered by dealing so much damage to a unit the health go beyond the minimum negative hp and wrap back to the maximum positive hp. If Spring didn't kept such bugs, the hardcore online elite will call spring a treason and will never made the switch, so it must be kept because it's in fact a subtle tweak the Cavedoggies left to make the game more balanced. ;)
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NOiZE
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Post by NOiZE »

Well as i made clearly in this thread: http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1205

The warlord weapons are swicthed in the OTA, and do work okay in XTA! i think it's only a minor issue and could be delt with quick, however i hav no knowlage of what so ever on coding.

That's the only thing i am asking.. Swicth the laser back to the laser cannon and the arty back to the arty cannon.

If u could do that u would be my hero
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Min3mat
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Post by Min3mat »

ditto :lol:
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Metaltrash
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Joined: 25 May 2005, 20:04

Post by Metaltrash »

Because of the AK,
not he has 3,01 exp, and the units get more heath the more exp they have ....
probably a bug with to strong life increasing
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08

Post by zwzsg »

After looking into the hpi (none of which having the hpi extension, but whatever), it seems that indeed:

In the Corbats.fbi of good old TA:
Weapon1=CORE_BATSLASER;
Weapon2=COR_BATS;

In the Corbats.fbi of spring XTA:
Weapon2=CORE_BATSLASER;
Weapon1=COR_BATS;

I guess they changed the QueryPrimary and QuerySecondary pieces in the script accordingly. I could switch the weapon around in my OTA patch, or include the OTA script in my OTA patch, but then, horrible things could happen if you'd play with someone who still have the other version. Well, just because I wanna be your hero, stick this file in your Spring folder to make Warlord weapons correct in Spring + OTA patch with or without evolva models. But don't spread and don't use online, ok? Or else Warlord will just be disabled in most games.

Also, it seems that the XTA Warlord script doesn't work on evOTA model. The warlord laser wouldn't fire at all. However, the OTA script, of course, works on both model.

So I guess this show it was a bad choice to keep XTA script. Not only they aren't optimised for Spring, but they create all kind of problem. I'll have to agree that Neuralize idea was better, and make something that entirely replace not only .fbi and .tdf, but .bos and .3do as well. I'll have to look if the bug such as adv core kbot cons not being able to build assist and stuff like that are kept in Spring, if they can be fixed, etc... I heard Swteck's bugfix scripts don't work in Spring. I wish the SY had kept a more faithful unit set in their Spring. Cause now there'll be all kind of varied incompatible unit set floating around.
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NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 19:29

Post by NOiZE »

zwzsg wrote:After looking into the hpi (none of which having the hpi extension, but whatever), it seems that indeed:

In the Corbats.fbi of good old TA:
Weapon1=CORE_BATSLASER;
Weapon2=COR_BATS;

In the Corbats.fbi of spring XTA:
Weapon2=CORE_BATSLASER;
Weapon1=COR_BATS;

I guess they changed the QueryPrimary and QuerySecondary pieces in the script accordingly. I could switch the weapon around in my OTA patch, or include the OTA script in my OTA patch, but then, horrible things could happen if you'd play with someone who still have the other version. Well, just because I wanna be your hero, stick this file in your Spring folder to make Warlord weapons correct in Spring + OTA patch with or without evolva models. But don't spread and don't use online, ok? Or else Warlord will just be disabled in most games.

Also, it seems that the XTA Warlord script doesn't work on evOTA model. The warlord laser wouldn't fire at all. However, the OTA script, of course, works on both model.

So I guess this show it was a bad choice to keep XTA script. Not only they aren't optimised for Spring, but they create all kind of problem. I'll have to agree that Neuralize idea was better, and make something that entirely replace not only .fbi and .tdf, but .bos and .3do as well. I'll have to look if the bug such as adv core kbot cons not being able to build assist and stuff like that are kept in Spring, if they can be fixed, etc... I heard Swteck's bugfix scripts don't work in Spring. I wish the SY had kept a more faithful unit set in their Spring. Cause now there'll be all kind of varied incompatible unit set floating around.
Well the idea was the multiplayer should get updated... I mean it's only a small file which only takes little time to download it. Just call it OTA_settings_v2.ufo or something so it's clear it's a new version. Than games can be prefixed with OTAv2 So the difference is apparent.
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