Bitcoin ROI made easy

Bitcoin ROI made easy

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varikonniemi
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Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by varikonniemi » 11 Aug 2017, 01:21

Sadly the previous Bitcoin topic got locked, so let's try again. How many satisfied investors did we managed to create in this community due to that previous topic? If you dived in back then you have made some 3000% ROI, what are your feelings today? Any problems in coping with your new lifestyle?

Now Segwit has guaranteed to lock-in after a year-long civil war, it is the largest upgrade to the protocol to date. It will make Bitcoin able to compete at VISA scale and beyond. How many of you are going to take this chance and purchase your ticket to the moon before segwit activates? Usually these are once-in-a-lifetime opportunities, but i am here telling you that this is your second chance if you did not capitalize on it the last time. World domination is about to start.
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raaar
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by raaar » 11 Aug 2017, 17:31

I googled bitcoin value.

The value of bitcoins rose 5 times in the last year. How can this not be a bubble?

This looks like a scaled up version of what it looked like before the crash near the end of 2013.
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varikonniemi
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by varikonniemi » 11 Aug 2017, 23:20

Because now there is a paradigm shift happening inside the technology, and no mtgox hundreds of millions heist shaking the belief in the early days.

Think about it: unlimited scaling, immediate transaction confirmation. These were the main criticisms of Bitcoin, and now they are guaranteed to be fixed. And in addition to the mentioned ones, there is a whole bag full of other features that get possible with the introduction of segwit.

As a testament of this sentiment the price has risen 200 euros per Bitcoin since i started this thread... So hopefully someone here was able to capitalize even in this 24h span :)
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Senna
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by Senna » 12 Aug 2017, 21:31

BTC on 3900 usd right now, is scaling up with non stop, and thats not good at all.
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raaar
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by raaar » 13 Aug 2017, 01:22

yes, it seems like investors should wait for the next crash before buying any...
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Senna
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by Senna » 13 Aug 2017, 08:23

"For the next ""crash""" lol^^ like is going to go down at any time soon?. It probably wont go down anymore, maybe can go down 20% but not more
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varikonniemi
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by varikonniemi » 13 Aug 2017, 09:01

"the next crash" yeah about that... It might be imminent, it might be from 5000 down to 4000. But the fact is that if you took my advice you have now made 700 euros per Bitcoin profit. I am not necessarily recommending investing at this very moment since my outlook is not so bullish after such a stratospheric launch, but on the other hand i would not be surprised to see 5000 by next weekend.
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very_bad_soldier
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by very_bad_soldier » 13 Aug 2017, 10:31

So what do you think would be an appropriate price for 1 bitcoin? 10$? 1000$? 1000000$?
And which factors do you incorporate for your estimation?
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varikonniemi
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by varikonniemi » 13 Aug 2017, 11:18

Image
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raaar
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by raaar » 13 Aug 2017, 18:40

How easy is it to actually sell bitcoins back into euros, dollars, etc.?

How much does the price of stuff in bitcoins change over time?
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klapmongool
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by klapmongool » 14 Aug 2017, 10:23

This guy has nice ROI: https://blockchain.info/address/1FeexV6 ... rHGW9sb6uF Looks like someone gathered large amounts before they were worth anything and held on to them. Now worth over 300 mln.

If bitcoin grows to be a replacement of 'normal' currencies, how does it make sense that this one person owns 0.4848% of the total monetary value in the world?
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raaar
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by raaar » 14 Aug 2017, 15:41

It doesn't make any sense.

Apparently bitcoin has about 250k transactions per day at the moment, which mean about 90 million transactions per year. In 2015 there were more than 100 billion transactions in euros (up 8.5% from the previous year). I doubt it can grow to that scale.

The cost of digital transactions using bitcoin seems huge compared to using regular currency
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... ustainable

It seems bitcoin's scarcity is tied to how transactions are recorded and how growing the ledger gets progressively harder. That seems like a huge mistake.

It seems they'll have to keep changing the system, and mistakes are going to be made. It will also either become more centralized or split into multiple currencies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_s ... ty_problem
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varikonniemi
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by varikonniemi » 21 Aug 2017, 01:05

How easy is it to actually sell bitcoins back into euros, dollars, etc.?
hundreds of exchanges. But don't give money there unnecessarily, localbitcoins.com and similar (face to face trade) has no fees and the rate has some bonus.
If bitcoin grows to be a replacement of 'normal' currencies, how does it make sense that this one person owns 0.4848% of the total monetary value in the world?
Well, bill gates is one of the richest people in the world, and what has he contributed? Founded a company that has made a shitty OS. This person you talk about has been vital in kickstarting the first currency in this world that is not based on violence.
Apparently bitcoin has about 250k transactions per day at the moment, which mean about 90 million transactions per year. In 2015 there were more than 100 billion transactions in euros (up 8.5% from the previous year). I doubt it can grow to that scale.
90M vs 100B just shows how much there is room for growth.
The cost of digital transactions using bitcoin seems huge compared to using regular currency
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... ustainable
The cost of Bitcoin is tiny, you need to compare the mining cost to that of the operating cost, salary and capital income cost of every employee and owner of every bank in europe. We talk millions vs trillions. Million times cheper with thousand times less tx = 1000 times cheaper / tx. (then you start comparing to the whole world as you should, and it becomes ~10k times cheaper). Also please note that Bitcoin has no requirement for cost. All cost that exists in mining is voluntary, even one laptop could keep Bitcoin running if needed. edit: also remember that at least in europe every nation subsidizes some of the operating cost of the banks by guaranteeing consumer savings. And you pay a monthly fee. So the real cost of banking is much higher. Not to mention inflation tax they put on us. So it is much, much higher.
It seems they'll have to keep changing the system, and mistakes are going to be made. It will also either become more centralized or split into multiple currencies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_s ... ty_problem
Split has already happened, and will probably in the future. The thing is, all splits give you the same amount of coin on the split chain also so there is no investment risk, more like doubling of your shares while value of both adjust to ~same as the one would have been without split. This is evolution/survival of the fittest in action.
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raaar
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by raaar » 21 Aug 2017, 03:57

The costs of operating banks wouldn't go away with bitcoin, I think the current situation is due to the need to work with physical currency, helping people not familiar with the internet(or who don't trust it) and marketing-related expenses. The other is institutional inertia and regulations that prevent banks from just firing three quarters of their employees (yes, I just made 3/4 number up).
I think if people were to be fully agressive at optimizing services then most of the population would end up unemployed even with today's technology.

It seems digital-only fiat currency managed directly by central banks (no middlemen banks) would be much lighter to operate than bitcoin.
varikonniemi wrote:
Apparently bitcoin has about 250k transactions per day at the moment, which mean about 90 million transactions per year. In 2015 there were more than 100 billion transactions in euros (up 8.5% from the previous year). I doubt it can grow to that scale.
90M vs 100B just shows how much there is room for growth.
It also shows how small the bitcoin world still is compared to major real-world currencies and it's already having scalability issues...
varikonniemi wrote:
It seems they'll have to keep changing the system, and mistakes are going to be made. It will also either become more centralized or split into multiple currencies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_s ... ty_problem
Split has already happened, and will probably in the future. The thing is, all splits give you the same amount of coin on the split chain also so there is no investment risk, more like doubling of your shares while value of both adjust to ~same as the one would have been without split. This is evolution/survival of the fittest in action.
"no investment risk", "doubling your shares", "adjust to the ~same"? What? How can a split not be bad? The middlemen that people use to buy stuff in bitcoin will have to support both currencies and that has to have a cost.

Most articles I find about bitcoin seem to be naively optimistic. People are hyped by the fact that it threathens the status quo somehow and don't seem to think about if the whole thing makes sense. People have been supporting it for years and investing in it too, so they can't let it fail, their best option is to draw more and more people to it. Others see bitcoin as a gamble. People love to gamble.

I wonder if it will recover from the next crash within a few months, or stay down for years...
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klapmongool
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by klapmongool » 21 Aug 2017, 08:13

varikonniemi wrote:
If bitcoin grows to be a replacement of 'normal' currencies, how does it make sense that this one person owns 0.4848% of the total monetary value in the world?
Well, bill gates is one of the richest people in the world, and what has he contributed? Founded a company that has made a shitty OS. This person you talk about has been vital in kickstarting the first currency in this world that is not based on violence.
At this point I know you aren't kidding. That is a ridiculous comparison though. I'll skip to the end of this conversation: it does not make sense. Despite all the advantages of bitcoin and other virtual coins; this alone is enough reason why it should not grow out to replace the 'normal' currencies. For every cryptocurrency there are people who have a lot of it just because they got in at ground level. Not because they did something revolutionary. Not because they invested a lot. Not because the made the right choice. Not because they invented anything. Not because they produced anything. Just because they were there. That does not justify owning, for example, 0.4848% of all value the world.
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varikonniemi
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by varikonniemi » 21 Aug 2017, 13:38

That is a ridiculous comparison though
So microsoft buying qdos, itself based on (or copied) cp/m, rebranding it as ms-dos and piggybacking on IBM:s wings to accidentally become an operating system monopoly is in your view something that is rightfully earned? Especially when that monopoly was not natural but as with intel, the result of dirty and illegal tactics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft

Compare that to someone who helps kickstart the most revolutionary technology since the internet in a time when almost everyone just laughed at the idea? In an environment where participation is completely open and announced well in advance of starting the blockchain. With no government enforcing copyright or patent privileges, no "accredited investor" requirement as if you had wanted to invest in microsoft in the early days. Essentially birthing a new industry in as open and fair fashion as possible, all while competitors are completely free to take the technology, improve it and enter competition (all altcoins are such).
The costs of operating banks wouldn't go away with bitcoin, I think the current situation is due to the need to work with physical currency, helping people not familiar with the internet(or who don't trust it)
Bitcoin can replace all banks, so there is no need to have such a drain on the economy. Bitcoin supports physical currency (see casascius coins) and they can be created without any special privilege (like banks have). So the free market (or governments) can provide it if it is desired. Additionally, the world bank/imf is currently planning to move away from cash, so you don't seem to know where we are heading. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-0 ... nslavement
it's already having scalability issues...
It had, but that is now solved with segwit/lightning. Infinite scalability is just days away.
"no investment risk", "doubling your shares", "adjust to the ~same"? What? How can a split not be bad? The middlemen that people use to buy stuff in bitcoin will have to support both currencies and that has to have a cost.
Split is how ideas compete, and the best one survives. Supporting both is as easy as running two wallets instead of one. Integrating it to your website is a hour's work, if you use payment processor it is completely transparent. But you don't have to support both if you have an opinion on which one is better and want to take a stance. All coin holders can trade their split coin to the preferred one so they don't lose anything.
Most articles I find about bitcoin seem to be naively optimistic ... I wonder if it will recover from the next crash within a few months, or stay down for years....
Here is your problem, you listen to people that have zero clue what they talk about. The same people that laughed at the idea and how it is a bubble back when i created the first thread. I believe the only reason that one crash was over a year long is the immaturity of the ecosystem back then, the scale/impact of the mtgox hack. Similar thing cannot happen any more since there are numerous professional, regulated exchanges. BTW the hackers (or at least the attempt to cash out) got caught recently, more details will emerge soon.

BTW, Bitcoin recently got a satellite fleet operational, so currently it is possible to use Bitcoin even without an internet connection. Censoring is impossible. In a few months they launch another fleet after which the coverage area extends to the whole world, and there are no fees. I have a feeling we don't fully comprehend yet what impact this will have, especially in the developing/oppressed parts of the world (like venezuela where people insure their wealth using Bitcoin, to get away from the 1800% inflation rate of local currency. Now they cannot crack down on use even if internet is cut or completely monitored). https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-helps- ... tarvation/ "Many Other Countries May Face the Same Economic Hardships" when fiat currencies march toward their inevitable outcome: crash or hyperinflation. http://georgewashington2.blogspot.fi/20 ... -fiat.html "The average life expectancy for a fiat currency is 27 years"
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Silentwings
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Re: Bitcoin ROI made easy

Post by Silentwings » 21 Aug 2017, 20:35

Imho this thread is uncomfortably close to being political and "has the only purpose to advertise another website or product".

I don't know whether avid bitcoin advertising is capable of creating a ponzi scheme, but please take this discussion elsewhere.

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