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usuario18013
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Last edited by usuario18013 on 17 Mar 2018, 13:39, edited 1 time in total.
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FLOZi
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Re: real RTS decision-based idea

Post by FLOZi »

This may be cross posted, and a long read, but I allowed it for off-topic discussion as there are elements here which Spring specifically would be suited for (c.f. the history of GroupAIs and ultimately widgets which can automate certain processes.)
gajop
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Re: real RTS decision-based idea

Post by gajop »

No harm done I suppose. I didn't read everything, but some games already have some of the elements you suggested. See rimworld for indirect pawn control, paradox games for abstracted battles/war plans and ZK for semi-intelligent units.
usuario18013
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Re: real RTS decision-based idea

Post by usuario18013 »

FLOZi wrote:This may be cross posted, and a long read, but I allowed it for off-topic discussion as there are elements here which Spring specifically would be suited for (c.f. the history of GroupAIs and ultimately widgets which can automate certain processes.)
Perhaps I have to post in in other discussion?

Thanks
usuario18013
Posts: 6
Joined: 25 Feb 2017, 14:32

Re: real RTS decision-based idea

Post by usuario18013 »

gajop wrote:No harm done I suppose. I didn't read everything, but some games already have some of the elements you suggested. See rimworld for indirect pawn control, paradox games for abstracted battles/war plans and ZK for semi-intelligent units.
Hi, thanks so much for you information.

I have seen two hours of RimWorld in youtube, and it seems pretty good (as the kind of RTS games I would play)

But it´s really slow, and the war section is also not so much thrilling.

It have a lot of things to controll, and a good system of priorities and tasks. Also you can control the units you want. Although you have to do build the base, it have a lot of things I was talking about.

I was really thinking in something like C&C or StarCraft, or like AoE with his upgrading system. Rimword is good, but I think that it doesn't have the action of the others.

I have not found about Paradox games and ZK, can you send me any link of videos about them or any other information like the game name?

Thank you.
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MasterBel2
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Re: real RTS decision-based idea

Post by MasterBel2 »

Orfelius
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Re: real RTS decision-based idea

Post by Orfelius »

I mean... I was rolling my eyes when I saw Zero-K as a suggestion at first.

But then I read that wall of thext essay and I would say that it is pretty much spot on. All of the things you describe seem to match with ZK almost perfectly.

ZK = Zero-K

Paradox games = Crusader Kings 2, Europa Universalis 4, Stellaris, Hearts of Iron 4

If you want ZK videos check Shadowfury's channel

If you want to look up Paradox games I would recommend Arumba's channel

Also I think you confuse RTS with strategy games as a whole. RTS are specifically games where you control (and often build) large armies and then put them to fight against other large armies in real time enviroment. Strategy games are a much broader term and include RTSs but also chess pretty much fall into that category.
That being said World of Warcraft is NOT AN RTS (not even a strategy game for that fact) and most games listed on the PC Gamer's list are not RTSs as well. Mostly TBSs that is turn based strategies.
Google_Frog
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Re: real RTS decision-based idea

Post by Google_Frog »

Your idea has a lot in common with the design philosophy of Zero-K but perhaps approaches the idea from a different direction. However, the differences might be a matter of manpower and experience in what is useful automation and what is not. (I'm a core developer of Zero-K by the way).

One of the core principals of ZK is that you should be able to enact decisions without an excessive number of clicks (relative to the complexity of the decision). Here are some examples:
  • To expand to an area of the map takes one command, clicking and dragging a circle, instead of individual commands for each resource point.
  • You can place retreat zones and set your units to retreat once they fall below a health threshold.
  • You can give attack move orders to units that cause them to kite (stay at their maximum range) or dodge projectiles depending on the situation.
  • You can set construction priorities to make more or less resources flow to particular projects.
  • Structures can be placed and constructed without giving any orders to your constructor units (Settlers 1 to 4 style).
That last point is a good example of experience. The feature has to be enabled through the menu since most players prefer control over which unit builds what.
usuario18013
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Joined: 25 Feb 2017, 14:32

Re: real RTS decision-based idea

Post by usuario18013 »

MasterBel2 wrote:Zero-K (ZK)
Hi, thanks, I will see
usuario18013
Posts: 6
Joined: 25 Feb 2017, 14:32

Re: real RTS decision-based idea

Post by usuario18013 »

Orfelius wrote:I mean... I was rolling my eyes when I saw Zero-K as a suggestion at first.

But then I read that wall of thext essay and I would say that it is pretty much spot on. All of the things you describe seem to match with ZK almost perfectly.

ZK = Zero-K

Paradox games = Crusader Kings 2, Europa Universalis 4, Stellaris, Hearts of Iron 4

If you want ZK videos check Shadowfury's channel

If you want to look up Paradox games I would recommend Arumba's channel

Also I think you confuse RTS with strategy games as a whole. RTS are specifically games where you control (and often build) large armies and then put them to fight against other large armies in real time enviroment. Strategy games are a much broader term and include RTSs but also chess pretty much fall into that category.
That being said World of Warcraft is NOT AN RTS (not even a strategy game for that fact) and most games listed on the PC Gamer's list are not RTSs as well. Mostly TBSs that is turn based strategies.
Hi, thanks for yous answer, so good.

Well, I have to say that I have seen some Zero-K videos, and I will try it to test myself, and compare to my words.

So, according to your words what I am searching is a RTS game but like a strategy game, because the goal of my words is it, visually like an RTS like C&C or others, but as you say, more like an strategy game, where the important things is how it have to be done, not just do it, and wait another order.

I have been seeing videos about Paradox games, and the only one that have something about my words is just the combat time in Stellaris. The others are just maps showing trops, but no action like RTS games.

I will try ZK to view how similar is to my words.

Thanks.
Last edited by usuario18013 on 03 Mar 2017, 00:19, edited 1 time in total.
usuario18013
Posts: 6
Joined: 25 Feb 2017, 14:32

Re: real RTS decision-based idea

Post by usuario18013 »

Google_Frog wrote:Your idea has a lot in common with the design philosophy of Zero-K but perhaps approaches the idea from a different direction. However, the differences might be a matter of manpower and experience in what is useful automation and what is not. (I'm a core developer of Zero-K by the way).

One of the core principals of ZK is that you should be able to enact decisions without an excessive number of clicks (relative to the complexity of the decision). Here are some examples:
  • To expand to an area of the map takes one command, clicking and dragging a circle, instead of individual commands for each resource point.
  • You can place retreat zones and set your units to retreat once they fall below a health threshold.
  • You can give attack move orders to units that cause them to kite (stay at their maximum range) or dodge projectiles depending on the situation.
  • You can set construction priorities to make more or less resources flow to particular projects.
  • Structures can be placed and constructed without giving any orders to your constructor units (Settlers 1 to 4 style).
That last point is a good example of experience. The feature has to be enabled through the menu since most players prefer control over which unit builds what.
Hi, thanks for your answer, I am happy just because of reading your words. I will firstly try the game, and then I will retourn for feedback.
Thanks
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