What is the current model?

[AF]

Back in the day I put forward that the engine should be for developers downloading, and that content devs should package up their games as games not addons, and create websites and marketing of their own instead of piggy backing in a $20 100 games in 1 box. At the time it was met with opposition, "how dare you try to break up the community", etc etc

What's the situation now?

At first appearances, it seems everybody arrived at a similar conclusion on their own, the engine download has no game or lobby, new users are directed to game installers

Yet we've still got people talking about users downloading the engine and grabbing games via chobby when it's ready.

Is there a consensus? What's the official position? Which games are in which camp?

I understand a lot of longtimers will have a certain setup, but I'm asking about new users, people installing on a fresh machine

[FLOZi]

Yours was the wrong position then and it remains so.

[Forboding Angel]

Yours was the wrong position then and it remains so.

I completely disagree. Engine dl is for developers.

[AF]

I'm not asking if you agree with me, that's my opinion, I'm asking what the current consensus is in the community

[smoth]

There is no current consensus..

I still believe that game projects should offer both all in one and internal-rapid support.
I believe game sites should have their own page talking about their game.
I still believe we should all be on the same server, zk disagrees.

I don't know what is going on anymore with the engine.

[FLOZi]

I'm not asking if you agree with me, that's my opinion, I'm asking what the current consensus is in the community

How can we ascertain the consensus (if one exists) without stating our own opinions?

[raaar]

Games should be "sold" or advertised independently and have their own web sites and such, but still acknowledge that they share the engine with other (somewhat similar) games and also share the multiplayer server. It's better to acknowledge that than to pretend they're all fully independent.

It's also better to have other players that get bored or rage at one game to stick around the same server and play other games there instead of escaping to the interwebs.

within the ecossystem, it's one in a dozen games. Out in the internet, or on hugely popular platforms like steam, it's one in hundreds or thousands!

[AF]

So the current consensus or status quo is:

• You should be on Rapid regardless of your stance
• Games should have their own site and installer and their own marketing push
• Most people believe a shared lobby server and online community is ideal

Does anybody use a distribution or installation system for content that isn't powered by Rapid?

How can we ascertain the consensus (if one exists) without stating our own opinions?

By looking at what has been said already. For the longest time my own view was quite different to the consensus of no dedicated installers and all online presence done via these forums. Of course a consensus can change, and stating opinions helps do that

[PicassoCT]

Everyone wants to be Zero-K. Only Bar is maybe getting there.

Wishfull thinkering.

No effective rewards for word of mouth (our only marketing tool) in any game <Something along the line of <Brag-About-Your-Victory-Send-The-Dot-Wars-Gif-Too-His-Allys in another Game(SC2/PA) Comunity>>

[Forboding Angel]

Does anybody use a distribution or installation system for content that isn't powered by Rapid?

NOTA

[raaar]

I've relied on springfiles. It also allows searching and stuff. I also link to images hosted there.

It seems lobby clients are able to auto-download stuff from springfiles (not sure if it uses auto-generated rapid tags under the hood).

I only recently got the rapid tag for MF. Didn't commit any "stable" versions yet, though.

[gajop]

I make no claim that there is a consensus or that my opinion is of that, however...
I *believe* Spring (site, infra, lobby, etc.) should be responsible for presenting and distributing games, and pr-downloader (rapid) should be at the center of such an ecosystem.
However, this is currently not the case, and sometimes you have to avoid using it altogether. The example being Ludum Dare games where you need to provide a simple download -> it's a barrier that can be overcome though.

I want Spring to not just be an engine, but also a development, distribution and play system. The goal isn't to compete with Steam for player numbers, but to provide a fully Open Source solution that we can extend to our needs. The three things should also be relatively modular so it's easy to take only the parts you need (e.g. distributing the game on Steam, but using Spring for development and playing).

In particular I think we need to solve a few things (pr-downloader side):
1. Provide a working make-sdd option that old Python rapid used to have.
2. Distribute (and compile) AIs over rapid. (Safety concern)
3. Create a simple self-update tool (similar to chobby.exe) for arbitrary games. Improve game metadata to include engine version (e.g. https://github.com/Spring-Chobby/Chobby ... fo.lua#L19), as well as maplist and ailist. This would allow a simplified game distribution (for the user), and the ability to use rapid for Ludum Dare-like stuff.
4. Make it easier to browse existing games on rapid. Instead of going to the multiplayer section of the current lobbies to find what's running, we should be able to get a list similar to https://springrts.com/wiki/Games , which should be especially helpful in exposing more games (all through rapid).
5. Easier (GUI/website) way to add your games to rapid, instead of having to directly contact abma.

[Forboding Angel]

Smoth and I wanted Spring as a platform years ago, but none of the engine devs would give the idea the time of day.