Total Annihilation 2 is alive

[PauloMorfeo]

Interview with the pope, Chris Taylor "tha man". Listen to, at least, minutes 28~30.
http://www.cnc-inside.de/podcast/exklus ... 37#English
Roughly 1 year old.

Obviously, after SupCom1, SupCom expansion, SupCom2, Planetary Annihilation and so many years, this by no means spells SpringRTS's doom. It wouldn't surprise me if Spring will end up outliving TA2 and Starcrap 2.

[smoth]

I hate when people call starcraft starcrap. it isn't my cup of tea but that doesn't make it crap.

[100Gbps]

smoth is right ... At the moment SC2 map editor provides so much modding (it is possible to convert entire eco/units of TA/Spring, I've done that before on SC1/War3) and fun with some community mods/maps, that leaves Spring+BA far behind it

[luckywaldo7]

smoth is right ... At the moment SC2 map editor provides so much modding (it is possible to convert entire eco/units of TA/Spring, I've done that before on SC1/War3)

Whoa there hold on.

You're telling us that the Starcraft 2 engine has the capability of

IMPORTING 3D MODELS!?!?

So much modding. Wow.

[100Gbps]

Oh, crap ... I forgot that there's a chance someone never used the full potential of competition's product.

War3 and SC2 are using lua too (jass, but with similar features), what a surprise! And no, importing 3d models is not the main thing in modding.

Anyway nice try, but when the devs will fix some weird things in engine and the lobby? Probably when Blizzard fix "arcade" mode in SC2 ...

[luckywaldo7]

Oh yeah: full disclosure: I know literally nothing about modding SC2 except what I've read in this thread.

So far, it's been confirmed that you can:
1) Import 3D models
2) Script your own economy (with Lua/Jass?)

That's like hearing about a car that comes equipped with four wheels and an engine. So I am currently quite unimpressed. And still confused about how this somehow involves Spring and especially BA.

[scifi]

Oh yeah: full disclosure: I know literally nothing about modding SC2 except what I've read in this thread.

So far, it's been confirmed that you can:
1) Import 3D models
2) Script your own economy (with Lua/Jass?)

That's like hearing about a car that comes equipped with four wheels and an engine. So I am currently quite unimpressed. And still confused about how this somehow involves Spring and especially BA.

Starcraft II mods are free to download and play with starcraft arcade, making games made there strong competitors. Also blizzard talked about allowing people to monetize mods, but this subject hasnt been touched by them in a very loong time.

In terms of what BAR has to offer, you could in theory make it with the starcraft II editor, but as far as i know there isnt anyone making any kind of RTSs from scratch inside of it.

[luckywaldo7]

I mean, what exactly are we trying to compare?

Are we comparing the modding capabilities of SC2 against Spring, or are we comparing a particular mod/game against BAR?

Also, as far as creating a TA/BAR-esque game goes, does the SC2 engine offer finite unit acceleration, non-zero turn radii, projectile physics, more realistic plane movement, force simulation (impulse & gravity), and realistic 3D terrain effects?]

Also, is Starcraft 2 Arcade stand-alone free, or do you need some copy of SC2 to have access?

[MetalSucker]

I'm repeating myself but spring is a simulator and starcraft is a game.

[knorke]

I also know nothing about Starcraft 2 modding except that original SC had quite some original custom games. (technically maps with lots triggers)
One limit was that all scripting had to be done via the trigger-menu-GUI thing in editor and one could not make completly new units. Also custom GUI was not really possible, at least all maps I remember always had a "menu" in style of move a unit here or move unit there to chose something.
(Also there later was advanced third party mapeditors, no idea what features those introduced in detail, maybe later there was real scripting with text?)
Warcraft 3 built on that and had even better editor, that basically allowed to make completly new games. (DOTA etc)

SC2 is many years later and I assumed the editor has been improved too.
So went to youtube and clicked random videos...no idea how those videos are done, how "hard" it was or what exactly they show but judge yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WELQBGCjCaE - Red Alert mod. custom GUI, custom build system, custom units/weapons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdrBIlKBNp4 - original SC in SC2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssippjBLTNE - physics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUxr-lJUt8s - COMPLETLY different game. weapon projectiles that are appearently not "bound" to one target but can "fly free"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVi-c1flZzg - 3D heightmap, unit physics
So seems in SC2 modding has become much more advanced than those old trigger-maps of original SC.
No idea if that allows to "recreate BAR in SC2", at least it will feel different, just like "TA recreated in Spring" feels different, but it seems like one could get close?
Original SC and WC3 had dozen/hundreds of minigames/custom games/mods so after watching those videos seems SC2 will continue that.

[luckywaldo7]

Skiing banelings lol.

The videos are pretty awesome, but they are mostly all tech demos. I would be interesting to find out how much work is required, and how convenient the editor is to use. Also find out if there is a repository of scripts for less work redundancy.

[smoth]

SC, WC etc have no real mods, just custom maps.

you cannot do bar in SC because BAR has some stuff like custom formations which starcraft doesn't have because you cannot really alter the game that much. you are still head locked into their system. Spring as an engine is way more flexible just harder to use because it has no gui based editing(editor) and because it has no gui based editor that we are supporting, it is more free form to do whatever the hell you want within it's lua interface to the engine(can this be argued as an API or something similar?).

I don't see what how my point was anything related to the editor and assume that was the poster moving to a new topic.

Spring has games, none of which are as polished as starcraft and never will be because none of us are going to spend the time it would take to make up the equivalent of a full team working full time for several years. I have no idea why the comparison is even being made.


SPRING = ENGINE
STARCRAFT = GAME

STAPH COMPARING THEM

[PicassoCT]

If you look at the whole mod thing from a company perspective, its also a double edged swoard.

Sure they prolong the existance of your title on the market.
But Blizzard is in a catchup race dotay, with a game that grew on there lawn.

The ideal game a company wants, is the stuff ubisoft and EA release. The only company who really managed a peacefull coexistance with the ecosystem they created i know off is valve - and they dont make games anymore.

[gajop]

Those SC2 videos seem impressive. That seems more powerful than Spring (if you don't touch C/C++ parts).
But talk about an "offtopic" thread. Everything after the first post seems like a derail

[knorke]

There is complete games too, but they felt less "informative" than techdemos.
Think even from the techdemos it is clear that such complex things are not done with GUI editor but via scripting. (appearently called "galaxy" and "andromeda")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGyQQwYHL_k - DOTA style, lots of blabla, probally has lots of details if one watches closely, skipped through it (at beginning talks about weapon/terrain physics, so that can be modded too it seems.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1xfednQE68 - 2D scrolling space shooter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6cXNTSjLdg - various

Think the puzzle-game in last video at 2 minutes is interessting. (the better you do in puzzle the more units you can buy for the battle)

Beside the modding it got me another thought:
This might become a whole new platform for gaming.
A new way how games are played.
The orginal SC/WC3 custom games were already hugely popular and now with real support and more possibilities...it might be hudge?

Some years ago you if you wanted to play a game then you had to install it.
Even if it was a simple play-during-breaks-style game, you still had to download it.
Now you can get the quick gaming fix with flashgames, in browser, without installing anything.
There is thousand of online flash games, for instant gaming.
Then came mobile gaming on phones as another fastfood platform.
Maybe SC2/battlenet will become a similiar platform.
Maybe in future players will not play flashgames in browser but instead play similiar games in battlenet.
I do not see it as a "double edged swoard" for Blizzard, anything that keeps players in their system is good.

[scifi]

Beside the modding it got me another thought:
This might become a whole new platform for gaming.
A new way how games are played.

That was their initial idea, which i think is a good one except people associate Starcraft arcade with the game starcraft rather than a free independent platform.

If they had done the Battle.net arcade instead of the starcraft 2 arcade, it could have been better.

Also smooth yes, spring is an engine and its much more flexbile and overall better because you can make what you want and monetise it. Custom formations yes even PA is having issues implementing that into the game.

[luckywaldo7]

I'm repeating myself but spring is a simulator and starcraft is a game.

SC, WC etc have no real mods, just custom maps.

SPRING = ENGINE
STARCRAFT = GAME

STAPH COMPARING THEM

Guys what is Heroes of the Storm? A custom map? A mod? -_-

That was their initial idea, which i think is a good one except people associate Starcraft arcade with the game starcraft rather than a free independent platform.

If they had done the Battle.net arcade instead of the starcraft 2 arcade, it could have been better.

Agreed. It looks like there is a free basic version of starcraft that includes Arcade, so it is almost standalone (but still not). They probably thought of it as way way to get more people into starcraft, which was stupid. Starcraft is not for the casual players they might pull with Arcade.

[Forboding Angel]

LOTV should actually lower the beginner curve by a LOT, which may end up invalidating your last sentence.

With LOTV, blizzard has essentially lopped off the first 4 minutes of gameplay. That much is HUGE, and that was one of the most crucial and newb destroying times of the game (choices matter a LOT in those first 4 minutes).

Even the pro players are hugely supportive of the worker count changes.

[smoth]

Guys what is Heroes of the Storm? A custom map? A mod? -_-

it is a game utilizing their tech and existing IP. You are not even trying.

[luckywaldo7]

Guys what is Heroes of the Storm? A custom map? A mod? -_-

it is a game utilizing their tech and existing IP. You are not even trying.

Right, "tech" being their game engine that is also used for starcraft.

Perhaps we should just refer to it generically as "Blizzard Engine".