About Work

[azaremoth]

Im leaving to america, very tired of waiting and waiting and waiting, what news tells us its all lies, news says 1 thing, real life its completely different. I get tired of that shit Sorry

What did they tell you - "Come to Germany - where the streets are paved with gold?" One of the reason that things are going rather well in Germany is the "newly" created dumping-salary-workforce saves companies tons of money. Thus German companies are comparably competitive in Europe. Not to forget the engineering and inventive talent of medium-sized enterprises. However, the competitiveness should only count in politics as long as people can afford their livings. A modern social democracy must not tolerate the tendencies towards modern slavery. The whole discussion could solved with comprehensive minimum wages for everyone working (legally) in Germany.

[Cheesecan]

Minimum wages you say? Sweden has minimum wages stipulated in the union collective agreements, approximately 2000 euros/month. Of course many small businesses such as restaurants pay much less since they haven't signed.

The government is one of the worst perpetrators of economic crime, theft from tax payers. In order to enrich themselves and "friends", tax payer businesses and property is being sold out at bargain prices. There is little or no media coverage of these types of things. Of course even when they are found out, they get away with it.

There is a soaring youth unemployment here, 25% versus 8% for Germany.
Though it is necessary to point out that they probably count unemployment differently in each country. Here, students and the infirm have a funny habit of getting counted among the unemployed, especially come election time.
Another possible reason for the significant difference in unemployment rate, could be the fact that the previous social democratic government thought everyone here should have a liberal arts education in secondary school. Trade schools were pariah, whereas Germany has had paid apprenticeship as part of the curriculum.

Here's a good example of how young people can manage to get a job here today; "consultant" agencies offer their union-connected corporate customers expendable workforce. At a markup price. The agency hires the worker themselves, then shuffle them on to the customer. The customer can decide if they want to renew the contract for a short period of time( months) or fixed time(even just days). It is the responsibility of the consultant to travel many miles on their own, in order to reach each new customer. No compensation(you get a job fucker, who are you to complain?).

We have permanent employment mandated by law, after a period of 6 months. This is easily bypassed by laying people off, then blaming the customer. The fact that someone else will be immediately hired to fill that vacancy, that's just a cosmic coincidence. All this keeps wages down and keeps employees afraid of losing their jobs at a moment's notice. People tend to keep their mouths shut then.

Making matters worse, there is no rental housing available in the big cities where the jobs are. Queue times for inner city apartments are counted in decades.
Buying a house with cash is unthinkable unless you were a lucky sperm, due to an ongoing 20(+)-year housing bubble.
The only way to buy one then, is to get a loan. But banks only offer loans to people who have permanent employment. In this vacuum you have the financial companies that offer loans to people without permanent employment, at 3x the current market interest. They are very happy to offer 5-digit interest micro loans, too. The fine print is of course not regulated by law, so dumb people are constantly being fooled into thinking those loans are cheap.

As icing on the cake, big newspapers here are quite busy reporting what every celebrity wears and writes on twitter. They have plenty of bloggers on staff, but no journalists able to conduct meaningful societal debate.

If you really want to work yourself up South America or East Asia would be my choice.

[smoth]

Not argetina thier money is rapidly inflating and their goverment is insane

[hoijui]

If you really want to work yourself up South America or East Asia would be my choice.

i totally agree!
most people, including the population from all continents and countries, still think of the world as it was 50 years ago. see the TED talk of James Rosslin.

[dizekat]

There's a lot of jobs in China, but they pay such absolute crap wages that you'll be wanting back to the 475 euro/month job. Unless for some reason you can be the token European guy to make the company look classy.

[Cheesecan]

I wouldn't go there to work, but to run a business. The thing is with those countries, if you go over there with 10,000 euros you can rent an office and hire people to work for you.

[smoth]

most people do not have that much capitol lying around.

[Cheesecan]

Most statistics show this, yes. But people also consume a lot of expensive stuff they don't need.

If you are young, with no family to support and no mortgages then it should be possible to save up some money over time.

[dizekat]

Well, its very hard to just have an office and have people work for you and not fail. E.g. people start programming project while themselves not being programmers, and they fail to ensure that anyone actually does any work or that it combines correctly, and fail to produce any software. There's also a lot of well deserved resentment from the workers of a guy whose capital is 100% due to his accident of birth. And then the language barrier and such - you can of course hire people who speak English but they still talk between themselves in Chinese.

[Licho]

I don't understand how can they pay you less than Germans. Common market policies specifically state that EU citizens must be treated equally - you should have same rules/protection as native Germans if you are from Spain.

[FireStorm_]

"If you can read this power corrupts you." By which I mean that if somebody is not held to rules by his surrounding, they are likely to break those rules. People often seek the edge/border of what is allowed. Just gently trying to beak the rules: "Oh, that's not allowed? I'm sorry I didn't know." ...yeah right...

So in my county the unions are strong and the rules pretty fair, I think. But someone running a business employing 10.000s or 100.000s of people, would make a lot of money if he/she could manipulate union rules in some way. So they might just invent a new thing (type of work-contract) and say the normal rules don't apply. I better yet, hope no-one finds out (or bothers with) the new thing isn't 100% fair.

So I think Cheesecan is very right to name the press. I think they have a very important role in these situations. Without able journalist (or possibly government representative) to name and shame big companies I don't think thing will improve. (no-one stopping you to write your newspaper or representative or even go for that job yourself )

That last thing is not entirely a joke. I also sometimes think there is a trend of people becoming more and more flexible workers. The number of one-man-businesses with no personnel, and freelancers, is rising strongly in the Netherlands. And I believe it has the highest % of part-timers in the EU. If government succeeds in protecting our rights, I think that is a good thing.

[Senna]

I don't understand how can they pay you less than Germans. Common market policies specifically state that EU citizens must be treated equally - you should have same rules/protection as native Germans if you are from Spain.

If someone is not german, Its a foreigner, even if it borns near germany.
And no i wasnt treated equally in about payment and other rules stuff.

and about protection and rules, i needed all cards imported from spain, means the civil protection and the clinic's one.

As i said do not belive so mutch on the news, im not against germany or any country, i have many friends from germany and other country's.

Im against that such european government.

Many people from spain are leaving europe as they know nothing can be done on europe anymore, and people with university, cant find jobs there, its a shame

Many friends with a degree of mining lathe and years of experience cant find job, and not only that job, all type of jobs have the same trouble, only waiter's.. with 250-400 euro month salary working 60h week, even with 400h there are zones in spain its not posible to survive, citys like barcelona, madrid, valencia. very expensive, if its hard alive there with 1200 euro month per person, imagine a 1000 euro month with 5 people on 1 house.....

Only 2 things to do.

1- Steal stuff till police catchs and meets in jail "and with those circunstances on jail is better alive than out, cuz all its payed...."

2-Leave the country to find other jobs and a new life...."and talking the country, leaving EU too... since its all merged on same globe"

[Senna]

I wouldn't go there to work, but to run a business. The thing is with those countries, if you go over there with 10,000 euros you can rent an office and hire people to work for you.

If its 100.000 euro ok, or even 80.000 euro. but 10.000 euro?

back on 2000 many people from portugal and spain said, blah i go to brazil with 10,000 euro and can do so many stuff.....
and yeah they went, but suddendly they saw everything was too expensive or same as the country they came... in half of a year they went back to theyr own country cuz couldnt survive or do any thing with that money...

and in 2000 the Real "money of brazil" had a tiny value, so the exchange was really good

Today even with 10.000 euro is not worth to and i think in maybe almost all countrys

The world is not easy as people says, belive in what other's say's is not the same as going there to see with own eyes.

[Cheesecan]

For sure, strike any well-developed countries in those regions of the list of candidates. There's also the question of personal security in any poor country, you will be a prime target not just for hoodlums but government officials.

Obviously if I had all the answers, I would be busy doing that instead of posting here. I just offered this as an alternative to being a wage slave all your life.

Then again, you could do as these senior citizens.

[PicassoCT]

Well, its very hard to just have an office and have people work for you and not fail. E.g. people start programming project while themselves not being programmers, and they fail to ensure that anyone actually does any work or that it combines correctly, and fail to produce any software. There's also a lot of well deserved resentment from the workers of a guy whose capital is 100% due to his accident of birth. And then the language barrier and such - you can of course hire people who speak English but they still talk between themselves in Chinese.

Thank you for typing my opinion down. All those saved keystrokes.

[Cheesecan]

Well, its very hard to just have an office and have people work for you and not fail. E.g. people start programming project while themselves not being programmers, and they fail to ensure that anyone actually does any work or that it combines correctly, and fail to produce any software. There's also a lot of well deserved resentment from the workers of a guy whose capital is 100% due to his accident of birth. And then the language barrier and such - you can of course hire people who speak English but they still talk between themselves in Chinese.

Thank you for typing my opinion down. All those saved keystrokes.

If I went to work in another country, the company I worked for could have an owner who:
1. Doesn't understand my work(say programming).
2. Deserves resentment(e.g. pays shit and takes all the reward like these minijobs).
3. Doesn't understand my mother tongue.

Heck, what you listed could be applied to pretty much any job. Just replace of 3. with having people go mute, exchange glances etc as soon as management is around.