Why not SpringRTS?
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?
I have zero doubt that we can use what spring has to offer to make stunning, beautiful animations comparable to most modern rts games. The problem is that compared to more modern methods of animating units, what we have is rocket science.
The link smoth posted contains some of the best animations for spring i have ever seen. Why is no-one using content of such quality in production spring games? Because the tools required to come up with those animations simply are not freely available.
The link smoth posted contains some of the best animations for spring i have ever seen. Why is no-one using content of such quality in production spring games? Because the tools required to come up with those animations simply are not freely available.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
Spring content-devs readily use expensive, "non freely available tools" like worldmachine.Because the tools required to come up with those animations simply are not freely available.
Issue with this example and that dude who made the game about lackey infantry, is that tools aren't available pretty much at all.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
Anarchid, if you devise a keyframed animation workflow for any commercial or free software that is capable of exporting to an open animation format, then the problem is more than solveable.
The pure fact of animation is that it is an extremely difficult and work intensive task.
The pure fact of animation is that it is an extremely difficult and work intensive task.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
Wrong answer.varikonniemi wrote: Because the tools required to come up with those animations simply are not freely available.
A Blender (or Max, or whatever) keyframe-animation-to-long-list-of-piece-turn-and-move-commands-exporter-script/plugin is really all that would be required for most people's purposes, yet do you see them writing one?
For some reason "recent advances" always have to come from others.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
! Kloot do you know how to do blender animation? I need someone to donate some time to do a few for one of my models so I can use it as a base to write said exporter! Can you help?Kloot wrote:A Blender (or Max, or whatever) keyframe-animation-to-long-list-of-piece-turn-and-move-commands-exporter-script/plugin is really all that would be required for most people's purposes, yet do you see them writing one?
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
I tried exporting anims from Blender once but failed at the maths. Nowadays Blender can give you rotations in the exact format you need for Spring AFAIK so it would be easier. However the lack of mesh deformation is brutal.
There's definitely a lot you can do with Blender that you would have no chance doing just with manual unit script coding. Modern animation tools can add so many things automatically that even the derpiest animator can get something decent out of them. Back in the days of Milkshape even keeping a foot on the ground during a walk was a nightmare, now that's a trivial task.
There's definitely a lot you can do with Blender that you would have no chance doing just with manual unit script coding. Modern animation tools can add so many things automatically that even the derpiest animator can get something decent out of them. Back in the days of Milkshape even keeping a foot on the ground during a walk was a nightmare, now that's a trivial task.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
Last I tried blender animation tutorials I ran into issues setting up the skeletons. Could you setup a skeleton on one of my mechs kdr and do a basic animation on it? or can you point me to some good tutorial on it?
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
Nope.smoth wrote:Kloot do you know how to do blender animation?
If I did (or had access to an example model plus animation) I would probably [have] whip[ped] something up.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
it is a funny chicken and egg situation isn't it?
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
What were the issues you had? You need to create an armature, then extrude the bone chain to get what you want.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
back then noob to pro was missing steps to create the armature
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?
So you say "here is an almost complete answer, just hack it together"?Kloot wrote:Wrong answer.varikonniemi wrote: Because the tools required to come up with those animations simply are not freely available.
A Blender (or Max, or whatever) keyframe-animation-to-long-list-of-piece-turn-and-move-commands-exporter-script/plugin is really all that would be required for most people's purposes, yet do you see them writing one?
For some reason "recent advances" always have to come from others.
That is exactly what i tried to express. It is possible to make stunning content in the spring engine. The matter of fact is that almost no-one is capable of this, since we simply do not have the tools for it.
Other engines use content created in formats with readily available editors. This is what spring is up against.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
@vari: Good job on missing the point. Twice.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
Did anyone ever post a derpy WIP video of something they animated in some 3d tool and expressing wish to export this to spring?
A video like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOC-fs9JHEo but with a spring unit.
Appearently it is so easy to make good looking animations?
Instead just see "how do i shot web" questions about these programs.
A video like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOC-fs9JHEo but with a spring unit.
Appearently it is so easy to make good looking animations?
Instead just see "how do i shot web" questions about these programs.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
Can always go here: http://www.blender.org/download/get-blender/ and get regression files, they should include blender examples. Then look for skeletal animations.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
I remember that dune guy who came in with a lot of content, last i checked he never actually got anywhereknorke wrote:Did anyone ever post a derpy WIP video of something they animated in some 3d tool and expressing wish to export this to spring?
never to that level in many communities but I am old and don't track the current generation of modding. I cannot recall anyone posting something like this.knorke wrote:A video like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOC-fs9JHEo but with a spring unit.
I don't think so but then again, so far, I am terrible at animationknorke wrote:Appearently it is so easy to make good looking animations?
knorke, clarify your statement here.knorke wrote:Instead just see "how do i shot web" questions about these programs.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
I understand knorke statement as: It's pointless to ask for better animation workflow until somebody has an animation to port to Spring.
So:
- First, create an impressive animation in whatever animator or 3d modelling suite you like.
- Only then shall we discuss how to convert it to a Spring compatible format.
So:
- First, create an impressive animation in whatever animator or 3d modelling suite you like.
- Only then shall we discuss how to convert it to a Spring compatible format.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
I get that part. it is why I am trying to understand how the animation in blender works. Because if I can figure that I can sit down and do stuff.
I think starting with something terribly complex is a bad idea. I would start with something like a mech doing a pelvic thrust then work on it from there.
I think starting with something terribly complex is a bad idea. I would start with something like a mech doing a pelvic thrust then work on it from there.
Re: Why not SpringRTS?
Someone find SpikedHelmets old max videos in the art thread.zwzsg wrote:I understand knorke statement as: It's pointless to ask for better animation workflow until somebody has an animation to port to Spring.
So:
- First, create an impressive animation in whatever animator or 3d modelling suite you like.
- Only then shall we discuss how to convert it to a Spring compatible format.
edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEFR-ONA4EY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jtMIeBWcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-wQRUqhyZ0
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?
Just to clear this up. I'm pretty sure the Dune people left because they couldn't find anyone to use Spring for them. They were a bunch of artists with a design document which were out looking for an engine along with a group of specialist programmers to recruit. We don't supply that.
This is what we tend to do with new people. They come here with an idea and perhaps some art and ask us about Spring. We usually tell them whether it is possible and point them towards resources which will teach them how to make the game themselves. When people come in with a "must recruit coders" mindset we end up talking past each other.
"The Spring Community" responds to this mindset poorly with "So you want us to make your game for you?" which is understandable. For all I know there are engines out there with a community of coders waiting around for projects to join. In that regard those engines have an advantage over Spring.
This is what we tend to do with new people. They come here with an idea and perhaps some art and ask us about Spring. We usually tell them whether it is possible and point them towards resources which will teach them how to make the game themselves. When people come in with a "must recruit coders" mindset we end up talking past each other.
"The Spring Community" responds to this mindset poorly with "So you want us to make your game for you?" which is understandable. For all I know there are engines out there with a community of coders waiting around for projects to join. In that regard those engines have an advantage over Spring.