Poll: Is a game with more units better? - Page 7

Poll: Is a game with more units better?

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NeonStorm
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by NeonStorm » 04 Jun 2013, 23:56

I wonder why we not have swarms or swarm-controller units.

Swarms are only displayed as "many", but are 1 unit, which is especially good for air/los.

If you could provide fast (ground) transports for slow raiders (=swarm units), it would improve unit count / collision-handling /etc while being idle and pathing on long ways (for swarms).
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smoth
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by smoth » 05 Jun 2013, 00:44

NeonStorm wrote:I wonder why we not have swarms or swarm-controller units.

Swarms are only displayed as "many", but are 1 unit, which is especially good for air/los.

If you could provide fast (ground) transports for slow raiders (=swarm units), it would improve unit count / collision-handling /etc while being idle and pathing on long ways (for swarms).
because you play ba. Gundam had them, and I am fairly confident s44 did as well.
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PicassoCT
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by PicassoCT » 05 Jun 2013, 09:25

Confirmed and dismissed- basically is a squad system, impact on play was medium to low.
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yuritch
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by yuritch » 05 Jun 2013, 09:31

S44 has no 'group' (swarm, squad, etc.) units currently. Some units are built as squads, true, but they are controlled as individual units once complete.
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PicassoCT
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by PicassoCT » 05 Jun 2013, 12:26

In the end, squads of units are just "Meta Units" comparable to the drone carrier in sc. they do not alter the way the world works. They just look diffrent.

My state maschines do not fundamentally alter the way you asign units. You just add a guard a reserve zone command into the chain.
And depending upon what triggers, they either are tasked to raid, patroll or defend. The real diffrence is that there is no AI that gives the actual move orders. And any moment you get unhappy with what happens, you can still take them and march them off to something else entirely.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by KDR_11k » 05 Jun 2013, 22:52

PicassoCT wrote:
KDR_11k wrote:
zwzsg wrote:Picasso example is a tad too detailed, but in a broader way, it would interesting to investigate RTS controls where, instead of selecting units then telling them what to do, you create actions to be done, then your units perform them. Though I currently fails to name any, I know there are games in brother genres that already have such scheme.
I'm not sure that'd be better than what we currently have, it's perhaps useful for much slower genres or awkward systems like phones or tablets but I don't see how it'll help with dealing with larger forces.

Telling your units to go or attack somewhere as a blob isn't hard with what we have, getting the various unit types to do different things gets tougher. And I don't mean just "arty goes here, tanks go here", I mean quickly repositioning units as the need arises.
The problem is that telling your units to do so- is taking up precious ressources (attention) which could be elsewhere.

Imagine it like aset of pre-setup able automised unitpumps.

The beauty of it that they wont attack like a "blob" - instead you get a well coordinated ambush from multiple reservespots. And you can even have multiple ambushzones drawing from one or two reserve zones, thus resulting in units which basically auto distribute to whoever or howmany are triggered first. The beauty of it is basically that you can program such quite easily. State A, State B, connection+condition and voila. I find it fascinating that this used for traditional Waiting/Repair/Ambush or Ferrysystems is considered optimal, but once it reaches the actuall battleplanning its a evil controll taking system. Well its not, but thats not the point.
But then what is?

The time to program stuff, that exists in abandunce at gamestart?
The fear that a opponent could make auto-counter attacks while you micromelee with him? Maybee its the idea of the "brilliant general" that is still in my head, and that wont let go of dumb grunt-behaviour (autonomy even in strong limitations? NEVERETTE!) down there on the battlefield.
You set up a very sophisticated ambush zone and suddenly the enemy just approaches from a different direction. Your plans are worthless and you quickly need to redeploy your troops in positions where they can deal with the new situation. Now it matters how quickly you can order those masses of units around.
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NeonStorm
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by NeonStorm » 06 Jun 2013, 06:08

KDR_11k wrote:You set up a very sophisticated ambush zone and suddenly the enemy just approaches from a different direction. Your plans are worthless and you quickly need to redeploy your troops in positions where they can deal with the new situation. Now it matters how quickly you can order those masses of units around.
We have "squads" - units which guard a leader.
The problem is, that the squad is resolved if the leader dies.

Real squad implemention (especially for planes) could make los (at median, increase with individual numbers) more realistic.
> 2 sensors can observe a hemisphere instead of a sphere and are thus usually better at what they do.

It could improve CPU time for los, pathing, collision, targeting, etc and how fast you can select/order groups.

And finally - because the game runs more smothly - players like a greater unit limit than they would have liked before.
Last edited by NeonStorm on 30 Jun 2013, 16:11, edited 1 time in total.
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PicassoCT
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by PicassoCT » 06 Jun 2013, 11:05

KDR_11k wrote:
You set up a very sophisticated ambush zone and suddenly the enemy just approaches from a different direction. Your plans are worthless and you quickly need to redeploy your troops in positions where they can deal with the new situation. Now it matters how quickly you can order those masses of units around.
yes, the universe could be part of a multiverse, but what if god just takes a bath, and every verse is just a bubble. And he sings bath operas and has a yellow rubber duck?

But can you override it in case of emergency?

Yes, thats the whole idea. Else that argument would allready apply against the TA Guardqueus.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by KDR_11k » 06 Jun 2013, 17:38

But that's not an edge case, reacting quickly to the actions of your opponent is the main gameplay in a strategy game! Drawing static zones is for tower defense games, in RTSes you need to be mobile. Unless you deliberately want to design your game to be like the trench warfare of WW1, an endless grind with no real progress.

Neonstorm: I have squads that simply pick a new leader in Cuberor (and other games using that gadget).
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PicassoCT
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by PicassoCT » 06 Jun 2013, 20:44

lets try to be honest, for most of the guys out there (excluding the usual main-battle-harded crowd (which is not my target audience)) setting up some queues (more complicated then in dota and towerdefense) is allready half the battles work. Now add some eco and some Micro at some hotspots to that, voila you got the average gamers game.

And my zones also add the raidtracks... if you connect a reservezone to those, you get triggered raids deep into enemy territorys- so its not just a defense mechanism. Just as patroll is not a pure patroll..

I consider it to be true that units should be able to break free any time frome the automaton if you order them. But the same goes for every ba game where factorys produce units autosending them towards the battlezone in a endless stream. Its nothing lost for the stronger players, but a lot gained for the weaker ones.
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AntiAllez
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by AntiAllez » 14 Jun 2013, 03:22

some screenshots from upcoming mt with a core i7 2600k and a fx 8350. mt for groundunits was disabled. really smooth game on robot defense mod(last version). notice: it seems there is a bug for amd systems that caused the higher cpu latency...


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AntiAllez
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by AntiAllez » 25 Jun 2013, 21:57

i changed some of my cpu settings and oc a little bit. Also zerver fixed the AMD bug. Observed the traffic, its fantastic how mt handle it. Look forward to the final release to compare it with any intel systems. Zerver go on :wink:


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PicassoCT
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by PicassoCT » 25 Jun 2013, 22:48

Too many krogs, didnot look;
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dansan
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by dansan » 26 Jun 2013, 00:03

Looks impressive!
AntiAllez wrote:mt for groundunits was disabled.
What does that mean? The pathfinder for groundunits was ST?
AntiAllez wrote:really smooth game on robot defense mod(last version).
Newest RD/TA is now compatible with MT, or was that a specially modded version?
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parker
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by parker » 26 Jun 2013, 03:56

*the vote*
-1

*the reason* (offtopic)
Attack girls
Admit it your an eco whore and would rather go play sim city for a month at a time. All the good players(not me) will finish us before/as we go t2!
5-20/5 ish min games are FUN. not 500 FPS@2 hr games.
Should the Question have been "Is porc good?" or "Does spring need more MT development?" I'm sure you know the answers to these questions though.

Opinions are like bum holes, everybody has one.
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PicassoCT
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by PicassoCT » 26 Jun 2013, 08:29

^ Sumary: "More of Everything devalues the Currency"
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Cheesecan
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by Cheesecan » 26 Jun 2013, 09:16

+0 It is fine as it is and that's all I can say when you haven't stated what you are really after.
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AntiAllez
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by AntiAllez » 26 Jun 2013, 17:06

many Super Krogoth, right :mrgreen:

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dansan wrote:What does that mean? The pathfinder for groundunits was ST?
'm probably the wrong address to answer that.
dansan wrote:Newest RD/TA is now compatible with MT, or was that a specially modded version?
was a special test version, zerver currently working on the release
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AntiAllez
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by AntiAllez » 02 Jul 2013, 17:06

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AntiAllez
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Re: Poll: Is a game with more units better?

Post by AntiAllez » 07 Nov 2013, 22:47

video upcoming next on project side

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