They proliferate like rabbits

They proliferate like rabbits

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Cubex
Posts: 56
Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 00:07

They proliferate like rabbits

Post by Cubex »

Modified to reflect Spring lobbies reality
Image
(just replaced "standard(s)" word acordingly, now purist hate me with your mouse and keyb)
Original comic from http://xkcd.com/927/
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SinbadEV
Posts: 6475
Joined: 02 May 2005, 03:56

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by SinbadEV »

I was totally thinking "wow, what a mess, we need a new better ultra-lobby"... but then I remembered I was lazy.

Incidentally, in my random searching for an existing generic lobby client framework I found someone on some random game's forum suggesting they adapt springlobby. I lo'ed.
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luckywaldo7
Posts: 1397
Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 04:36

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by luckywaldo7 »

http://springrts.com/wiki/Lobby_Development

It seems there are 5 considered 'usable', only two of which are cross-platform, only one of which is open source.

I suppose the relevance is that there is to be considered a 'main' lobby, there is only really one choice.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10298
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by PicassoCT »

I know the sollution to this. A arena, sand, sharp objects and tigers. This is calling for a fight to the death!
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Jools
XTA Developer
Posts: 2806
Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 16:29

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by Jools »

Why do lobbies need to be cross-platform? Why can't just every platform have its own lobby? I use Tasclient which I like. There are no big problems with it, just some occasional crash when you shut it down.
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Vladimir
Posts: 14
Joined: 08 Feb 2013, 01:12

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by Vladimir »

yeah TAS Client is still the best
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10298
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by PicassoCT »

So do we put all the others down? End the soffaring once and for all?
Or do we castrate them? If we let this continue unchecked, we will face exponential growth eventually. Nobody in here wants Realworld TribalTribbleTrouble?

Also, the stains on the trousers - were the lobbies dryhumped your leg.
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smoth
Posts: 22300
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by smoth »

so far, my 2 faves are SL and NOTALobby. SL feels more powerful than notalobby and is open source. Where as notalobby is nice and easy to use, without the control that my inner nerd loves and is closed source(currently).

For me personally, I prefer SL but for most people, I would point them to nota lobby.
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Vladimir
Posts: 14
Joined: 08 Feb 2013, 01:12

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by Vladimir »

Both SL and NOTA lobby look like the kind of amateur UIs I created during my A-levels using visual studio. It is so evident that they were just thrown together by some random guy who wanted to practice making a simple IRC type app, lacking knowledge of all basic design principles and no attempt made to make it actually run smoothly without crashing every 2 seconds

Whereas TAS client is the time-tested original official client that has been properly coded, properly designed, with maximum functionality and the ability to actually customize the layout, skins, colours and icons

I think deep down everyone knows it's the best client but it is ignored simply because it is exclusive to windows
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luckywaldo7
Posts: 1397
Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 04:36

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by luckywaldo7 »

Jools wrote:Why do lobbies need to be cross-platform? Why can't just every platform have its own lobby? I use Tasclient which I like. There are no big problems with it, just some occasional crash when you shut it down.
Why would you want the need to support 3 different lobbies instead of one?
Vladimir wrote:Both SL and NOTA lobby look like the kind of amateur UIs I created during my A-levels using visual studio. It is so evident that they were just thrown together by some random guy who wanted to practice making a simple IRC type app, lacking knowledge of all basic design principles and no attempt made to make it actually run smoothly without crashing every 2 seconds

Whereas TAS client is the time-tested original official client that has been properly coded, properly designed, with maximum functionality and the ability to actually customize the layout, skins, colours and icons

I think deep down everyone knows it's the best client but it is ignored simply because it is exclusive to windows
Ha.
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smoth
Posts: 22300
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by smoth »

LOL Vladimir
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Nemo
Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 1376
Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 19:44

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by Nemo »

Been thinking about writing a lobby using nodejs and one of the webkit frontends so it'd be easily skin-able (pure html/css) for various games. choice is good, yeah?
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dansan
Server Owner & Developer
Posts: 1195
Joined: 29 May 2010, 23:40

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by dansan »

The idea is good, but one of the biggest (intentional) obstacles is that web browsers cannot easily execute local programs and read+write everywhere on your hard disk. But you need the unitsync library to check for maps+mods and download maps+mods and you must start spring.exe ofc.

Additionally the lobby protocol assumes a steady tcp connection per client. With a browser that is difficult to do, and on the server side you'd have to open a connection per logged in user and keep processing the data stream for all users. You'd have to make sure to close it, when he closes the web app or he'll have problems switching to another client.

Weblobby (http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... t=weblobby) used java client side to accomplish this, but for me it never really worked reliably.

Hum.. just thought maybe all of that doesn't apply, if you had in mind to use the rendering engine in a dedicated GUI.... gtk+ or qt would be multi-platform and can incorporate webkit.... Suddenly this post feels useless :D
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smoth
Posts: 22300
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by smoth »

Nemo wrote:Been thinking about writing a lobby using nodejs and one of the webkit frontends so it'd be easily skin-able (pure html/css) for various games. choice is good, yeah?
Sounds neat. I still have yet to see a lobby replace Springlobby for flexibility and power but if you setup a lobby that I can skin using just html and css, that sounds interesting!
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Nemo
Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 1376
Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 19:44

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by Nemo »

dansan: yeah, the unitsync stuff would probably have to be a native node.js module (C/C++), then node would handle all of the system interaction stuff (keeping the TCP connection open, reading/writing files, etc.). I have no idea how unitsync works, maybe it'd be possible to have a really simple native binding and do most of the lifting in javascript.

There are a few projects like http://appjs.org/ which basically take Chromium (or lower level WebKit bindings) and point it at a locally running node server. Not the lightest-weight solution in the world (any distributed package ends up including a platform-appropriate install of both nodejs and chromium), but 40mb isn't all that much space anymore. So yes, you were right on by the end of your post :P
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SpliFF
Posts: 1224
Joined: 28 Jul 2008, 06:51

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by SpliFF »

I'm keen to get an in-engine lobby server and client working via luasocket and chilli. As always lack of time has prevented me getting very far but when I do have it this is a high priority for me.

I'm pretty sure the main hurdle right now is that you can't run widgets in the pre-game screen. I can probably hack around this for now by having the launcher start a "lobby mod" to bypass the frontend entirely.

I'm open to collaboration if someone wanted to help with this.
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smoth
Posts: 22300
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by smoth »

If i wasn't leaving in a few days :|.
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
Posts: 3359
Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by CarRepairer »

dansan wrote:Weblobby (http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... t=weblobby) used java client side to accomplish this, but for me it never really worked reliably.
Try it again. I started working on it a few days ago. It can now support multi-engines so you don't even have to install spring first. I got it working in Windows and Linux64. Linux currently only has version 93.2 static build so you can only join games hosted with that engine version. Mac is WIP, been having trouble getting it to reliably download.
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klapmongool
Posts: 843
Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 13:19

Re: They proliferate like rabbits

Post by klapmongool »

TASclient ftw!
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