What am I doing wrong here.

What am I doing wrong here.

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smoth
Posts: 22300
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

What am I doing wrong here.

Post by smoth »

It seems many times when I open a thread to discuss a specific approach, I am bombarded with unrelated suggestions. Even when I specify several times in the thread I am trying to approach a problem 1 way, I am hit with several posters who continue to insist their suggested approach. Even worse, when the thread is still going on I have individuals who derail the thread into talking about their unrelated approach.

I am pretty experienced in the engine, I am pretty capable as a programmer. While I understand many of you may mean well, after I have said, NO to that approach stop pushing it.

How can I start a thread where an idea can be approached without it be shat on by people who just won't read the thread? Moderators refuse to split off-topic posts out of threads(this is easy to do, don't tell me it isn't). People ignore repeated requests when I ask them to stop derailing.

I would not complain about derail if it was some random discussion thread but when it is about "how do I execute specific thing in the engine" I don't want to read about "do it with completely unrelated thing." If I wanted general suggestions I would ask if you have OTHER approaches.
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Azhukar
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Joined: 16 Apr 2012, 10:48

Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by Azhukar »

The burden of properly communicating your thoughts lies with you and not with the listener. As such you are correct to assume that you are doing something wrong, not that people can't read. Although there are people that just read the first post and respond to that, which becomes a problem when the first post is vague.

People like to throw their 2c in. Correct me if I am wrong, but you yourself derail threads and should know that it is something you don't even need to intend to do.

http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 39#p520139
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 42#p520142
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 70#p521170

No I do not want to discuss the above links, just wanted to illustrate an example of how natural it comes to discuss issues not entirely related to the first post.

Point being, it is to be expected to have some form of derailment, threats in first post about reports are probably an extreme reaction and it comes off as hostile. Stating what you already tried and what you do not want as you did in your newest thread is a good approach.

Accepting that people would like to try and help even if they do not 100% know what you're asking for is probably a better idea than treating is as some form of problem to be solved.
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SinbadEV
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by SinbadEV »

Have you tried magic?

I have a job where I regularly deal with humans... the major three issues that these humans have are: not having read the instructions, not thinking the instructions applied to them and wanting me to confirm that something they read in the instructions is actually true... in most cases they are asking for a refund because they didn't read the instructions and proceeded anyways... or worse yet, did something wrong, got told what they did wrong and then did the same thing wrong again and are confused why they got charges twice.

Basically, people usually don't read, and when they do, they read what they expect to see and even if they read what you wrote and understand it they still want to explain to you why your opinion is wrong and your question is wrong and that really this is the answer you are looking for.
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smoth
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by smoth »

Azhukar wrote:The burden of properly communicating your thoughts lies with you and not with the listener.
it is as though you proved my point with your very first sentence. the topic is "what am ***I*** doing wrong."

Do me a favor just don't give me advice regret we fundamentally disagree on personal philosophies with regards to dealing with people. Your answers are not correct either. It is nice that you are trying and it is possible for us to converse in a civil manner but more often than not it just results in mutual irritation. So if I am asking for advice. please, make it a personal note to think: (regret need not apply). If we were talking about something technical by all means but when it comes to inter-personal, spiritual or philosophical just leave the thread alone.
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Hobo Joe
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by Hobo Joe »

Respond calmly to answers that take it in the wrong direction, instead of getting angry. You got disproportionately angry in your LUA thread, people took the topic in a tangential direction (related but not precisely what you were looking for) but instead of simply guiding it back towards what you wanted you got angry and demanded the thread be closed, and made a new OP that was aggressive from the outset. Sometimes threads take a little while to get on track in the proper discussion, this is normal.

Nobody wants to help an angry person. You're even doing it in this thread already.
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smoth
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by smoth »

I did make a few posts trying to re-rail(is that even a word) the train, they got ignored.

so how do you suggest hobojoe?
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SinbadEV
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by SinbadEV »

smoth wrote:re-rail(is that even a word) the train
The correct terminology is "Get the Train back on Track" which is relevant to the discussion.

If you have done anything wrong (and I don't think you have in most of these cases... as mentioned above, humans don't communicate good) it has been to try to stop the train from going off track when the better approach would have been to address peoples comments and why you had chosen not to take that approach and thereby steer it back onto the rails.
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smoth
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by smoth »

smoth wrote:unit attachment:
- hacky as fuck, seriously no, so many issues.
Massive set of hidden parts:
- requires all the parts to use 1 atlas
- - Atlas texturing is ok but not for me, I prefer proper texturing.
- maintenance night mare
was this not good enough?
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SinbadEV
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Joined: 02 May 2005, 03:56

Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by SinbadEV »

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate (because I love doing so, it's like may favourite pass time) <not really me talking>

unit attachment:
- hacky as fuck, seriously no, so many issues.

leaves open to discussion of why it's not hacky
Massive set of hidden parts:
- requires all the parts to use 1 atlas

leaves open people explaining how to apply textures differently
- - Atlas texturing is ok but not for me, I prefer proper texturing.
- maintenance night mare

leaves open to suggestions on how to make it less nightmare-ish


Sometimes people send me emails asking questions that are so wrong that they cannot be answered.

For Example: How do I do X when Y happens?
When X isn't something you should be doing and Y isn't something that can happen... I'm not going to be able to answer that question in a way that is going to satisfy the asker... but based on your presumption that the answers people are giving you are not within the limits you've mentally set on the discussion you are missing out on solutions.

Just spit balling here... but what if you made 1 unit that had all (or a subset) of the guns in it and you spawn and attach this gun unit to your base unit and hide all but the gun you want to show... meets all of your requirements but breaks the rules you set on the discussion.
</not really me talking>

So anyways... I get that once you have dismissed a suggestion you expect discussion of that suggestion to end or move to a new thread... and that is a reasonable thing to expect... but really, it's human nature to try to find the answer to the question that you think people SHOULD be asking and not the one they asked.
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smoth
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by smoth »

Any answer I would have given would open the way to debate. It is what most of the talker types here like to do. I get put in a bind because if I just say NO people respond that I was too short with them. It seems a difficult thing to balance.
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Hobo Joe
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by Hobo Joe »

smoth wrote:I did make a few posts trying to re-rail(is that even a word) the train, they got ignored.

so how do you suggest hobojoe?
Stay civil and guide the discussion back towards what you need, rather than laying down a hammer saying "THIS IS WHAT I WANT". It possible that you'll have to do this several times before it works.

I'm not trying to get on your bad side or something, you created this thread to get answers and I gave one, and you are still being passive aggressive about it, as you were in your Lua thread. As I said, sometimes it takes a little while for a thread to hit its stride, it's normal for it to wander around a bit at first on tangential topics.
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smoth
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by smoth »

Nelson Mandela wrote: “One of the things I learned when I was negotiating was that until I changed myself, I could not change others.”
Joe, I wasn't being passive aggressive, I asked for more information. Sinbad is discussing why my getting it back on the rails failed. That was my intention, more info.
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Turpentine
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Joined: 24 May 2012, 20:22

Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by Turpentine »

some ppl just read and see something like
Image

:D
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Peet
Malcontent
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 22:04

Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by Peet »

Hobo Joe wrote:You got disproportionately angry in your LUA thread
There is no such thing as "disproportionately angry" when people use Lua as an acronym.

Turpentine wrote:some ppl just read and see something like
Image

:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swQi4CAzmrA
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Turpentine
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Joined: 24 May 2012, 20:22

Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by Turpentine »

Peet wrote:
Hobo Joe wrote:You got disproportionately angry in your LUA thread
There is no such thing as "disproportionately angry" when people use Lua as an acronym.

Turpentine wrote:some ppl just read and see something like
Image

:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swQi4CAzmrA
lol the face
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bobthedinosaur
Blood & Steel Developer
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004, 13:31

Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by bobthedinosaur »

Sorry smoth! It was not my intention to derail your topic. I know your frustration as I have also tried to get a discussion going about development of something that totally steers away from my original point. :(
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smoth
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by smoth »

It's ok bob, I am just trying to find out what I can do to prevent it from happening again. You know how it goes, you can only control yourself. So I am trying to see how I can do those threads better. I am not happy with the idea of starting threads(like the attach thread #2) with such harsh tones, I do not wish to do so.
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MidKnight
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by MidKnight »

Here are my thoughts!
  • Be nice!
  • If you have a question only a few people can answer, direct it to only those people!
  • Optimize posts for readability! (I like lists of short statements like this one)
  • Word your posts such that people can clearly demarcate what is on-topic and what isn't!
  • Ignore derails and respond to substantive posts -- calling attention to an off-topic post encourages a reply!
  • If there are no substantive posts, then you're going to have to point that out, I guess.
  • Forgive minor derails.
  • Complaints, rebuttal posts, and long arguments aren't usually worth the time (you actually kind of said this yourself earlier) -- if a post isn't what you're looking for, tell them that or ignore them, instead of yelling at them.
  • Sometimes, nobody has a real answer to your question, so they fill the thread with chatter instead!
oh, and
  • Don't use as many exclamation points as I do!
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bobthedinosaur
Blood & Steel Developer
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by bobthedinosaur »

I've noticed if you bring a little bit of content such as code, an image, or animation, people tend to get more involved.
Also sometimes describing the process or dynamic you envision is difficult because people think they know what you are talking about but are thinking of something completely different and are not listening to the details you are using.... *ahem*car*ahem*
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MidKnight
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Re: What am I doing wrong here.

Post by MidKnight »

bobthedinosaur wrote:sometimes describing the process or dynamic you envision is difficult because people think they know what you are talking about but are thinking of something completely different and are not listening to the details
Yeah! What he said!

Also maybe you should add a clause like "if you don't have an answer, please don't reply -- I prefer an empty thread to one that strays off topic." I know you've done this before, but the way you word that sentiment is important, too!
Last edited by MidKnight on 24 May 2012, 21:45, edited 2 times in total.
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