Recommendations for New Pc - Page 2

Recommendations for New Pc

Post just about everything that isn't directly related to Spring here!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Prominence
Posts: 97
Joined: 24 Jun 2008, 07:21

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by Prominence » 15 Nov 2011, 02:41

:roll:
Last edited by Prominence on 15 Nov 2011, 02:44, edited 2 times in total.
0 x

User avatar
Prominence
Posts: 97
Joined: 24 Jun 2008, 07:21

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by Prominence » 15 Nov 2011, 02:43

AF wrote:Its a vast improvement in terms of integrated graphics, but it's not a discrete graphics card. A discrete card will always give it a run for its money, and you can get such cards for a 10th of the cost of the cpu these days.
You didn't fully read or understood the question. I never asked if integrated graphics is better than discrete graphics, because that question has too obvious of an answer which I already know.
0 x

dansan
Server Owner & Developer
Posts: 1191
Joined: 29 May 2010, 23:40

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by dansan » 15 Nov 2011, 10:47

Prominence wrote:
AF wrote:Its a vast improvement in terms of integrated graphics, but it's not a discrete graphics card. A discrete card will always give it a run for its money, and you can get such cards for a 10th of the cost of the cpu these days.
You didn't fully read or understood the question. I never asked if integrated graphics is better than discrete graphics, because that question has too obvious of an answer which I already know.
If somebody doesnt understand your question, it doesnt help to note that. You should instead rephrase it.

Regarding your question: afaik their is no technical advantage. Even the sync isnt better as the IGP is still communicated to through PCI(E). It does consume less power and thus produces less heat - that matters to notebooks.
The main advantage is for the seller (intel + notebook producers), that it's cheaper to produce CPU+IGP than separated - so its easier to sell plus - and that's the biggest win for intel - more ppl will buy a gfx card from them, as it is not possible anymore to not buy a intel CPU without.
0 x

User avatar
AF
AI Developer
Posts: 20669
Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by AF » 15 Nov 2011, 16:28

Is there any benefit in having CPU with integrated graphics given that there is discrete graphics card.

Quick Sync?
What else?
Here balloon man is asking a question about integrated graphics built into the CPU.
My marble is considerably bigger than yours, a revolution in scale technology,
Here, cloud man responding by lauding the virtues of his new i5 CPU or APU with integrated graphics instructions. He spits on the carcass of the integrated graphics in your machine for being inferior, and brags about how great his new hardware is in comparison.
but we're both dwarved by that small car over there, and most cars are bigger, we hardly stand a chance,
Cloudman looks over at the Geforce 550 sitting on the desk of a rival coworker and laments that when running at 5% it still has more horsepower than his new i5 and the integrated chipset combined.
my giant marble is still bigger though, just don't look in any other direction and I'm still the biggest
Cloud man claims we should pretend the discrete graphics card doesn't exist and focus on his almighty i5 integrated graphics for fear of damaging his ego.
You didn't fully read or understood the question. I never asked if integrated graphics is better than discrete graphics, because that question has too obvious of an answer which I already know.
Here balloon man has failed to read cloud mans response properly, and has utterly and totally missed the comparison of the two marbles, focusing instead of the reference to the car.

Instead of comparing the 2 comparisons of (marble v smaller marble) vs (small car v big car ), and realising the two obvious explanations that could be derived from the answer, that an integrated gpu on the cpu is better then a chipset, but nothing much more, or that the comparison of integrated graphics on the MB vs the CPU is a meaningless comparison when exposed to the existence of discrete cpus, he instead fails to pay attention and posts a snarky reply which gets himself no closer to an answer, puts other people off of answer, and damages his reputation.

Cloud man is not impressed, and rolls his larger marble aggressively towards balloon man.
If somebody doesnt understand your question, it doesnt help to note that. You should instead rephrase it.
A wild dansan appears.

Wild dansan issues a slapdown, and promptly eats the smaller marble with a satisfying gulp.

Regarding your question: afaik their is no technical advantage. Even the sync isnt better as the IGP is still communicated to through PCI(E). It does consume less power and thus produces less heat - that matters to notebooks.
The main advantage is for the seller (intel + notebook producers), that it's cheaper to produce CPU+IGP than separated - so its easier to sell plus - and that's the biggest win for intel - more ppl will buy a gfx card from them, as it is not possible anymore to not buy a intel CPU without.
The wild Dansan reveals himself to be the Wise and Venerable Dansan, bestowing an explanation, and assailing the moral high ground, much to the relief of all involved.

*3 cookies to Dansan*
*balloon man shrinks away in defeat*
*In recent news, sales of marbles has plummeted in trading on the Swedish cookie exchange, analysts blame the recent switch of server from Lichos fridge for the disastrous fall in value*
0 x

User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22298
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by smoth » 15 Nov 2011, 16:46

-1 cookie to af for not recognizing a japanese honorific.
0 x

User avatar
AF
AI Developer
Posts: 20669
Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by AF » 15 Nov 2011, 17:00

*Cookie Authorities trace recent illicit cookie thefts to a man named Smoth. Upon capture smoth reported that no cookies had been taken, and made references to various irrelevant Japanese cultural institutions*
0 x

User avatar
Jools
XTA Developer
Posts: 2804
Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 16:29

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by Jools » 15 Nov 2011, 17:52

SirArtturi wrote: You can't compare buying a shirt and buying a computer.

Computer consists of different components ... T-shirts are complete products, they don't change that much.
To be honest, that's a comparison :wink:

<Lawyer out>
0 x

User avatar
SirArtturi
Posts: 1164
Joined: 23 Jan 2008, 18:29

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by SirArtturi » 15 Nov 2011, 21:00

Oh hello mr. language police. Please don't ticket me.

Read the first sentence.
0 x

User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22298
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by smoth » 15 Nov 2011, 22:37

Jools wrote:
SirArtturi wrote: You can't compare buying a shirt and buying a computer.

Computer consists of different components ... T-shirts are complete products, they don't change that much.
To be honest, that's a comparison :wink:

<Lawyer out>
LOL <3 that was pretty funny.
0 x

User avatar
Prominence
Posts: 97
Joined: 24 Jun 2008, 07:21

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by Prominence » 16 Nov 2011, 03:25

Most people who buy Intel i5 and i7 desktop processor probably would get discrete graphics card, so integrated graphics would just turn off (What a waste of space) so there is absolutely no reason to get processors with K suffix like 2500K and 2600K unless you absolutely need to overclock.

As for benefits for those who used it, one review seems to suggests that they have optimized video transcoder, but it's only optimized for only two software.

For some reason the 6 extra execution units for integrated graphics seems to attract noobs who buy processors with K suffix thinking that it's better although they are getting discrete graphics with one monitor.
0 x

dansan
Server Owner & Developer
Posts: 1191
Joined: 29 May 2010, 23:40

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by dansan » 16 Nov 2011, 10:43

hihi - you guys are funny :lol:
You must be eating cookies with special ingredients :mrgreen:
0 x

zerver
Spring Developer
Posts: 1358
Joined: 16 Dec 2006, 20:59

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by zerver » 17 Nov 2011, 17:18

Integrated graphics is very good because then you can do like I did.

Take your kick-ass i7 2600K and disable all cores but one and then underclock the remaining core to 1.6Ghz. Now you have a very power efficient small home server.

It beats even Atom in terms of performance per watt and runs perfectly with the boxed cooler and no cpu fan.

If you want to play some games, the power is there... you just have to connect the fan and reboot. Yeah, you may want to insert a gfx card as well.
0 x

Senna
Posts: 315
Joined: 17 Mar 2009, 00:20

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by Senna » 21 Nov 2011, 08:58

zerver wrote:Integrated graphics is very good because then you can do like I did.

Take your kick-ass i7 2600K and disable all cores but one and then underclock the remaining core to 1.6Ghz. Now you have a very power efficient small home server.

It beats even Atom in terms of performance per watt and runs perfectly with the boxed cooler and no cpu fan.

If you want to play some games, the power is there... you just have to connect the fan and reboot. Yeah, you may want to insert a gfx card as well.
Whats the W needed?
0 x

zerver
Spring Developer
Posts: 1358
Joined: 16 Dec 2006, 20:59

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by zerver » 21 Nov 2011, 17:55

~20W, and that is measured at the wall outlet, so it includes the losses in the PSU.

I am using a tiny PicoPSU http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/.f
0 x

Senna
Posts: 315
Joined: 17 Mar 2009, 00:20

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by Senna » 16 Dec 2011, 05:34

Well this post was more about discuss than saying the real things,

I still dont know what best hardware and cheap pieces to buy the pc:)
0 x

User avatar
KaiserJ
Community Representative
Posts: 3113
Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 22:59

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by KaiserJ » 16 Dec 2011, 21:17

your choices initially were fine. 2500k with 8 gigs of ram, or phenom 2 quad with 16 gigs should be about the same price.

what was mentioned about RAM speeds was true; you don't NEED to buy expensive RAM to get good performance. i liked the look of the ones i got because of the heatsinks, and stand by my decision.

don't spend too much on HDD because prices should be back to normal within a year... get as cheap of a one as you can get away with IMO

don't skimp on a motherboard, especially if you want to future-proof... get one with options for SLI and multiple expansion slots

best bang-for-buck graphics card is the 560Ti unless you want sketchy drivers, then go with AMD. it will play all current games on ultra. 550Ti and standard 560 are only a few dollars cheaper but the performance gap looks to be quite large.

i would suggest making the decision about a SSD after you've gotten everything installed and have seen what your load times are like.
0 x

User avatar
Prominence
Posts: 97
Joined: 24 Jun 2008, 07:21

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by Prominence » 18 Dec 2011, 16:57

zerver wrote:Take your kick-ass i7 2600K and disable all cores but one and then underclock the remaining core to 1.6Ghz. Now you have a very power efficient small home server.

It beats even Atom in terms of performance per watt and runs perfectly with the boxed cooler and no cpu fan.
Wouldn't ARM Processor be more better option for that kind of stuff. ARM processor is way more power efficient than x86 architecture, and even Intel Atom is far behind in term of power efficiency.

ARM processor such as Nvidia Tegra 3 have single core running when idle, and power up rest of cores as needed, so you get both performance and efficiency.
0 x

User avatar
Prominence
Posts: 97
Joined: 24 Jun 2008, 07:21

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by Prominence » 18 Dec 2011, 17:29

KaiserJ wrote:your choices initially were fine. 2500k with 8 gigs of ram, or phenom 2 quad with 16 gigs should be about the same price.
No, 2500K is stupid choice. If one is to overclock really high with 2500K, then one would also likely spend some money on high end cooler, which adds cost of that extra integrated graphics which almost all people don't really get to use because of discrete graphics, cost of unlock feature, and extra cost for the cooler. The total additional cost is better spent on getting Intel i7 2600 which provide 4 additional logical cores which mean it has twice the number of logical cores than i5 series processors.

And let say if your going to overclock little bit, then there is no reason to pay more for integrated graphics given that your going to get discrete graphics. Plus there is already a turbo boost feature which turn up the frequency when needed, so there is no need to overclock.

Again, processor with K suffix is marketed for noobs who don't understand their own hardware.

AMD Phenom is also a bad choice given that it can't beat dual core Intel with no hyperthreading. AMD seems to went backward with their technology by sacrificing performance for higher clock speed. They must be aiming for the profitable noob market.

The best time for buying new processor would probably be towards the end of 2012 when Windows 8 comes out. Hopefully by then Project Denver would be complete and allow more competitor to enter PC processor market which would lower cost. I be getting one last x86 and transition to ARM processor.
0 x

User avatar
KaiserJ
Community Representative
Posts: 3113
Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 22:59

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by KaiserJ » 18 Dec 2011, 18:33

after an issue in college where my graphics card died a few hours before an assignment, i will always buy integrated graphics... was the only thing that saved my grade... was able to print and run off to class. its a failsafe backup in case your graphics card melts.

for me, 2500 vs 2500k is a difference of $10. 2500 vs 2600 is a difference of $100. from every benchmark i looked at, a stock 2500 was almost as good as the 2600, certainly not $100 worth of better. similarly, the phenom 2 quad i got was almost as fast as the 2500 in benchmarks (better actually in some cases to do with rendering) and certainly the difference was not $100 worth of better.

you can argue all day that these more expensive processors are better and faster, which clearly they are, but senna is working on a budget gaming build which limits somewhat the parts that can be used. i'm just trying to suggest things that he won't have to sell a kidney for.

edit: what pc would you build for $650-750?
0 x

Coresair
Posts: 279
Joined: 30 Dec 2009, 01:17

Re: Recommendations for New Pc

Post by Coresair » 18 Dec 2011, 23:14

I have GPUS laying all over my room, problem solved.
0 x

Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic Discussion”

cron