Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban. - Page 2

Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post just about everything that isn't directly related to Spring here!

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BaNa
Posts: 1561
Joined: 09 Sep 2007, 21:05

Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by BaNa » 25 Aug 2011, 18:48

smoth i like you man but that is sum epic fail what you are posting. Yes these topics can be discussed elsewhere and yes this forum is about spring, but:
  • These were in the OFF TOPIC forum part
  • Some people (like me) enjoyed discussing these topics with such a varied bunch of people who I would otherwise not have the pleasure of reading.
  • Yes people have different political views, no this did not effect how i treat them.
  • I am not saying this as a slight on your character or anything but you have an issue with taking trolling too seriously / not letting shit go. This does not mean that it is a general thing.
  • Without this kind of activity, the forum has a lot less life. Like it or not, without the kind of interesting topics in OT, I for one visit and post much less because the random game related shit mostly does not concern me
and btw : Give me one solid example of when the hostility spilled over to the rest of the forum. I call bull on that, people keep citing it but even during the US elections and other big issues like that i cannot remember any big flamewars in other parts of the forum because of that.

edited for nicer words
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FireStorm_
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by FireStorm_ » 25 Aug 2011, 19:12

This is actually becoming quite ironic. (and thus a little funny :-) )

Seems to me, exercising a ban on discussing any subject is BEING very political, witch sort of counteract the whole point of the rule.

furthermore:
It is quite common for ruling politicians to ban whole practises because they can't, or don't want to, deal with incidents related to it.

It is also quit common for those to uphold laws and rules to misinterpret, follow them to literally, or to execute them too exaggerate.

I think a moderator should facilitate understanding between two parties, not cut them off from each other and leave them in ignorance.

I think it unlikely anyone ever got wise without saying some stupid stuff.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by PicassoCT » 25 Aug 2011, 19:52

Its thursday, that means history has to take the trash out. Yippie!
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smoth
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by smoth » 25 Aug 2011, 21:47

What kaiser is talking about is how some forumgoers are incapable of containing themselves either by offending or being offended. A easy example is lathan who received ample hatred for posting his anger about illegal immigrants. Or forb who breaks into a pretty solid rage. Or how some users make quite bigoted posts about Americans in general.

Fact of the matter is that by allowing such posts through inaction they are supporting said views. Such things are not civil and have no place here.

"I think a moderator should facilitate understanding between two parties, not cut them off from each other and leave them in ignorance."
as long as they are being educated to the RIGHT view. Amiriteorwhat?!?! Seriously though, the moderators are volunteers. They are not here to settle the fight over buttered toast top or bottom. The fact they they would have to devote such effort to moderate such a discussion which is terribly time consuming is a good reason to say ok guys, that's enough.

People like you acting as though this is comparable to political oppression need a reality check.
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KaiserJ
Community Representative
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by KaiserJ » 25 Aug 2011, 21:52

FireStorm_ wrote:I think a moderator should facilitate understanding between two parties, not cut them off from each other and leave them in ignorance.
this is all well and good when dealing with objective topics such as mathematics/programming/game design

how could a moderator possibly approach a subjective topic like politics or religion where there is no right answer? it just isn't possible. having an unmoderated forum is really not an option when "serious" members would like to legitimize the community to be acknowledged by other communities and things like GSOC

BUT WAIT

an un-moderated spring players forum already exists

http://springrts.com/springnetwork/foru ... m.php?f=20

have a look, there's clearly no moderation whatsoever. it's a forum specifically designed for spring players to go (rather than devs) and talk about whatever the hell they want.

and as i've stated... i've had enjoyment from political threads on here, but i just can't see the benefits outweighing the drawbacks of allowing possibly inflammatory threads to exist in an environment that is primarily intended as a development resource ESPECIALLY after someone took the time to create an area specifically for beef/flames/unmoderated discussion.
Give me one solid example of when the hostility spilled over to the rest of the forum. I call bull on that, people keep citing it but even during the US elections and other big issues like that i cannot remember any big flamewars in other parts of the forum because of that.
as soon as someone says "it is" instead of "i think it is" in a subjective argument you're going to have problems; a basic mistake of confusing fact with opinion; and if you look across arguments within the threads, they generally stem from people doing this exact thing. it's painful to read, and disappointing that people are that poorly educated and/or unable or unwilling to properly participate in a debate.

of course, part of the problem is people using this forum as a "hangout." it's fine to have people interested in the projects who don't actually do anything, but when they are the ones being the loudest and most obnoxious in politics/religion threads, one must question their involvement in the forum in the first place. not always but often it seems like the people with the least invested interest in any spring project (or at least find the forum to be of questionable value as a resource) are more likely to go out of their way and say something unfortunate or rude; they have nothing riding on their active status here and therefore have nothing to lose.

specific examples of thread rage spilling over? i can for sure remember some denmark guy being banned for carrying an argument over from one anti-muslim thread into another.

perfect example of a more passive case of the same effect... picasso above me says
i disagree with Forb nearly 85 % of the time
and this is a perfect example of "spillover" regardless of whether it is negative or not. they're disagreed in the past, and regardless of whether they take it seriously or not, those prior contacts still exist and will possibly color future communication

and my point stands. how can a moderator possibly maintain order in a heated argument over such subjects?

if you guys are really serious about wanting these discussions back... create a rubric by which moderators can judge political/religious comments. it's not an easy thing to do (and frankly not a fair thing to expect moderators to do. i'm here to work on projects mostly and to chat a little bit, not to read poorly worded political arguments and ban/punish based on their validity)
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Satirik
Lobby Developer
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by Satirik » 25 Aug 2011, 22:21

KaiserJ wrote:but i just can't see the benefits outweighing the drawbacks of allowing possibly inflammatory threads to exist in an environment that is primarily intended as a development resource
development resource ? wtf ? there is a dev part in the forum for developers, but that's about all, the spring forum has never been a dev ressource only, especially when the development of the project is almost dead, kill the community with boring rules and you'll kill the whole project
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smoth
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by smoth » 25 Aug 2011, 22:33

You only know what you see. We content devs commit uncounted hours helping other content devs building resources and documents. Saying something like that is entirely dismissive of the mountains of work put in.
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Hoi
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by Hoi » 25 Aug 2011, 22:59

What satrik is trying to say is that this forum isn't exactly very busy, and banning one of the most common subjects will only make it worse. Mods can complain about how difficult it is to moderate such threads, but that simply isn't true. A warning to people who are disrespectful of others is more than enough to keep things from becoming like 4chan.

It's a forum. It's meant for discussing things. This is the off topic section. It's for off topic discussions. Religion and politics are off topic discussions.
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by hoijui » 25 Aug 2011, 23:12

so Kaiser.. you say.. we can not have politics threads cause of google?
like.. cause someone in the community wants to do something with google, and cause someone else mentioned that maybe they dislike if anyone ever says a bad word about their company on the forum, and that because of this they might not want to work with spring in the regard that one person would have liked, we should ban politics threads?
UFF.. now i would have the perfect nazi analogy ready... but.. can't use it, cause... political, cause of nazi :*(

(no, that is not it)
iNazi - nazi yourself in a network together with all your iNazi friends. only now with 50% more effective Zyklon B -> Zyklon C!!
you don't have time for your friends? nazi them online, at any time! and you never have to worry about spending too little time with them again.
iNazi, because you care.
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smoth
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by smoth » 25 Aug 2011, 23:25

Just seems like a flimsy reason.

Effectively the strongest argument is that you guys want the forum to be about political/religious stuff because you are uninterested in project development. Yet such discussions breed the sort of behavior that drives away serious developers.

So keep an already dying community alive at the cost of the real purpose of this page.

Seems to me you are pandering to people who eventually will leave all the same. They have no reason to stay around and are uninterested in spring projects. So we further degrade the community so a few can have a last hoorah before they wander off to some other place that actually interests them?
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007, 09:51

Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by hoijui » 25 Aug 2011, 23:49

soo.. political threads kill developers and development and the whole project?
uff... i hope they were not banned to late then.
... i had no idea! i though terrorism is bad but...
i call for war on politics!
we can! we have to! the survival of our nat.. project depends on it. to the arms!
tu turu duuu!!

iNazi - if you pre-order now, you get a coupon for a free firmware upgrade for iZyklon, which will allow you to declare war on the uttermost ridiculous things, like birds, or the idea of free will!
don't let the real nazis do all the work, and do your part, for a better world.
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KaiserJ
Community Representative
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Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 22:59

Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by KaiserJ » 25 Aug 2011, 23:53

satirik: sorry... was unclear; by development resource, i meant development of anything for spring be it artwork or widgets or ideas of some type... there is only one sub-forum here that's non-spring related

hoijui: was thinking more about people getting a bit annoyed at infighting another year when a GSOC application was announced; not sure if this was actually an issue (and it probably wasn't); the point i failed at making was about the issue of making the forum a more positive environment in appearance to newcomers

my personal stance? i'm too effing lazy to be a judge of appropriateness in a political discussion and not enough of a fascist to ban somebody for questionable political/religious statements. i can understand both sides of the issue and it nullifies my desire to do anything about it. i discuss politics and religion instead on another forum. the only reason i'm in here wall-of-texting is to try and explain the reasoning behind the rule. until you see an angry report about a seemingly ambiguous statement that requires a judgement call because somebody has been offended in an obscure way it may be difficult to understand the issue.

i'm not sure if there is anything else i could possibly say.
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Professor
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Joined: 23 May 2011, 22:59

Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by Professor » 25 Aug 2011, 23:54

The problem is that now that this ban is in effect restoring things to how they were is 100x times harder than doing the banning..
It's not enough many people dislike this, you must also overcome the banning moderator's ego and somehow actually make someone act and reverse the situation...
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by PicassoCT » 26 Aug 2011, 00:10

smoth, i just wonder why this comunity is so lively when its dieing.

The problem is that we heaved spring on the graphics plataue were all other games live, and the price for that is that a standard participant cant anylonger participate, because its unreal to read through a stack of tutorials just to get something half decent together.

This comunity is not dieing. Quite the contratry. It just lacks currently all-in-one-easy-to-use-tools. And a Game that embraches the nubs while keeping the elitish crowd busy.

Can do.
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MidKnight
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by MidKnight » 26 Aug 2011, 00:12

Professor wrote:The problem is that now that this ban is in effect restoring things to how they were is 100x times harder than doing the banning..
It's not enough many people dislike this, you must also overcome the banning moderator's ego and somehow actually make someone act and reverse the situation...
...What?
I don't understand this post.

FTR, I'm in favor of no political discussions. I'm also in favor of no meta.
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FireStorm_
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by FireStorm_ » 26 Aug 2011, 00:22

Smoth wrote:"I think a moderator should facilitate understanding between two parties, not cut them off from each other and leave them in ignorance."
as long as they are being educated to the RIGHT view. Amiriteorwhat?!?! Seriously though, the moderators are volunteers. They are not here to settle the fight over buttered toast top or bottom. The fact they they would have to devote such effort to moderate such a discussion which is terribly time consuming is a good reason to say ok guys, that's enough.

People like you acting as though this is comparable to political oppression need a reality check.
He, don't put words in my mouth. I do appreciate the time and effort moderators put in, but that doesn't mean they are inviolable, and/or that their decisions should not be allowed to be discussed.

'Oppression' is a big word but sometimes it might apply. I have checked reality and occasionally a topic is branded 'politics' (I assume) and locked down, before any one is allowed to respond, and without any reason given except (again assumed) that it is 'political', witch to me is a pretty subjective term.

(Also I think mutual understanding has little to do with 'the RIGHT view'. but that's besides the point.)

In my experience, here on the spring forum, I have discussed political topics without anyone becoming abusive, or anyone objecting. I won't really mind if it becomes impossible in the future but i do think it is rather strange.
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Degenerated
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Joined: 26 Aug 2011, 00:22

Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by Degenerated » 26 Aug 2011, 00:31

It's great to be able to speak ones mind freely.

Moderator team interaction with community done only by censorship and warnings. Community lead a placeholder long without meaning or purpose. Active moderators countable on 1 hand, most of which do not care or bother to invest their time into solving issues that arise.
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Wombat
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by Wombat » 26 Aug 2011, 00:40

banning politics/eco/religion threads made the forum boring ? lolwut ? i wish these were the only reasons.

but hey, there is a lot of rage threads @ DSD/anything silly, just lurk offtop/general discussion bit more, its great fun!

long live sefidel btw !
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luckywaldo7
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by luckywaldo7 » 26 Aug 2011, 01:11

If you can't find anywhere else to discuss politics, you are probably doing the internet wrong.
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momfreeek
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Re: Forum has become boring after politics/eco and religion ban.

Post by momfreeek » 26 Aug 2011, 01:16

Its still easier for moderators to moderate a few "omg oppressive moderators, we want politics" threads than it is to moderate the politics threads that are gone. If you want better moderators you'll have to pay more money.
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