DOTA 2 ingame screens. - Page 4

DOTA 2 ingame screens.

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smoth
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by smoth » 17 Aug 2011, 23:50

People do not become professionals by playing for free. But that is besides the point. For players like you or I we are not at the pro level.. So why does that argument matter for dota1/2 or lol? Our game is not tightly sprung enough to claim the game really isn't tight enough. Now if you were a player arlt randy's level I would understand but at our level it seems pretentious. Maybe I don't get it and this is not meant to be insulting it is a question because i just don't see what I am missing here
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TheMightyOne
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by TheMightyOne » 18 Aug 2011, 10:23

Otherside wrote:
Gota wrote:In what way is LoL uncompetitive?
What is your definition of a competitive game?When you need to click more than 200 times a minute?
There are quite a few reasons but I will sum it up simply with what Chu said.

FYI for anyone who doesn't know who Chu is, he was the best HoN player and a top Dota player, he played LoL for a while and got to number 1 in US ladder in 3 weeks and has now come back to HoN.

Chu:

"seriously though I'm glad I got to try League of Bads, now all my arguments vs LoL will be valid. Well made casual game, donkeyshit competitive game. There is only one way this game can be played at top level and that is passive farm-lane-entire-game, with its metagame heavily reliant on a stupid free blink that probably plagued that game since the beginning of time. "

Flash is one of the main reasons why competitive LoL fails.

Now just like you said in the LoL thread stop derailing with your fanboism and being a hypocrite :)
Too much bullshit in one post ^^ lets get the facts straight.

Chu did reach rank #1. But 3 weeks? He was stuck in 1700ish hundreds for something like 2 months! Till he started duo queing with jiji (who is a big fan of chu) and getting pointers from other top players. I recall Hotshot saying in one of his streams that chu is getting better but he is playing too passive in the lane and farming for way too long.

What happened next, how did he make it to the top? He picked a mostly underplayed champion (maokai) and found a way to play him "right". Those are the 3 weeks in which he rocketed like 500 elo. There are other examples like that see SorakaBot+Eve and TheRainMan+Teemo to name a few. People need time to adapt to a new strategy, people didnt know how to fight maokai as they didnt know how to fight eve or teemo cuz nobody played them except for those people.

Last but not least, chu talking about competetive scene :mrgreen: You want us to believe that youre not biased and that youre a straight thinking person with an own opinion and then you swallow this kind of bullcrap and you don't even stop to think for a second whether it holds any truth. How is chu even qualified to speak about the competetive scene when he hasnt been a member of a team for more than a day. All his LoL experience comes from SoloQueue which couldnt be further away from competetive LoL.

And finally, the meta is a subject to change. Yes, LoL's pace is probably slower than HoN's or DotA's in the laning phase although it doesnt really have any effect on the overall lengh of the game. In defence of Riot i have to say that they are aware of that and they are working to improve this part of the game. And to remind you, you compare a game that has been balanced and changed for 8 (!!!) Years to one that has been out for 2 years. Patience is a virtue.

Edit: I forgot about the flash. You can love it you can hate it but you can't just remove it from the game in its current state. Flash is the best escape in the game, does it mean its OP? Not really, it has a huge cooldown and in fact it adds a whole new level on mindgames. people will try to bait your flash, make you waste it, force you to flash and when its gone youre left with no escapes. How is this a bad thing exactly? flash is part of the game, you have to account for it. thats it.
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Gota
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by Gota » 18 Aug 2011, 10:46

Flash is by far the best and most used summoners skill, nobody can deny that...
Its defensive,its offensive its amazing.
You can argue that flash actually allows for more aggressive play though...

making a laner use flash makes his lanning potential much weaker thus ganking just for the sake of burning flash is effective.

I wouldn't mind though, if summoner skills were completely removed alongside runes.
I dont really see the point of them.
Runes are actually even worse than masteries and summoner skills because they are so undynamic in the sense that they are prepared in advance and cannot be changes mid selection as part of a strategy.
You can only have 10 runepages which forces a player to have generic sets ready for most champion types, at least in soloqueue.

I think nerfing flash will probably make ap carries worse because a lot of ad carries have blinks anyway or some other form of escape.
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TheMightyOne
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by TheMightyOne » 18 Aug 2011, 10:59

Champions without escapes will become useless imo. See Ashe. And other champions which heavily rely on flash for their initiation will become too difficult to use, Galio for example.

Burning somebodies flash without getting a kill is still a huge success, once you start seeing it that way you'll realize that flash is "fine".
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Gota
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by Gota » 18 Aug 2011, 11:41

Its not even that the technical micro limitations have been reached anyway.
Nobody gets 100% cs even if they are freefarming.
Not even HotShotNidaleeGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
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scifi
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by scifi » 18 Aug 2011, 12:49

Ok
http://www.dota2.com/tournaments/intern ... ?l=english

http://www.dota2.com/tournaments/international/game/102
ive been watching this, and i must say the grafics are way better than LoL,and seriously its way better(grafic wise).
it has the potencial to be a great game.

But what i meant early is that when you make a game like this, in order for it to last, you must add this fresh prespective to the game, like to give a sence that the game is evolving into new battlegrounds and maps, an evolving genre. If you remake it,, surely people will play it but it wont be that awesome experience of playing a new DOTA, it will be just playing the old one. For me watching these streams, i like the way its going, but if they wanna make a sequel that will last in time ,that could give Valve the money to even make a DOTA 3 /4 increase the amount of content, and quality dont just stay with a remake.

Also LoL is competitive, it may not reach DOTA 2 potencial, but its competitive.
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Otherside
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by Otherside » 18 Aug 2011, 16:39

I have been playing LoL since beta unlike most if not all of you.

Riot wanted to remove Flash but then wimped out last minute and have made the game a passive flashfest at the competitive level cos of it.

When Dota had blink dagger back in the day which you could use even if you had taken damage the game sucked, there was a public outcry and it was at the brink of killing competitive dota. Icefrog subsequently patched the dagger and only allowed use of the dagger after you had not taken hero damage for a certain period time. Dota then boomed after this patch. Now....

Blink dagger is a 2150 gold item that takes up an item slot. Sure the blink distance is longer and the cooldown is lower than flash but to be effective you need a blink dagger early and it is a huge pickup and game defining for certain heroes (Tiny, Sand King etc)

Also early ganking in LoL is near on pointless due to flash and the game is more passive cos of it simply because you have a free escape button (+ the tower damage in LoL is ridiculous and makes tower diving at any early point of the game suicidal)

I am not even going to bother carrying on because you are all seeming like hypocritical douchebags guilty of the same thing you acused me of in the LoL thread.

Now gtfo and leave this thread to discuss Dota 2.
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Otherside
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by Otherside » 18 Aug 2011, 16:44

scifi wrote:Ok
http://www.dota2.com/tournaments/intern ... ?l=english

http://www.dota2.com/tournaments/international/game/102
ive been watching this, and i must say the grafics are way better than LoL,and seriously its way better(grafic wise).
it has the potencial to be a great game.

But what i meant early is that when you make a game like this, in order for it to last, you must add this fresh prespective to the game, like to give a sence that the game is evolving into new battlegrounds and maps, an evolving genre. If you remake it,, surely people will play it but it wont be that awesome experience of playing a new DOTA, it will be just playing the old one. For me watching these streams, i like the way its going, but if they wanna make a sequel that will last in time ,that could give Valve the money to even make a DOTA 3 /4 increase the amount of content, and quality dont just stay with a remake.

Also LoL is competitive, it may not reach DOTA 2 potencial, but its competitive.
The reason there are no other maps used competitively in this genre is simply because the map is a big a part of balance than the heroes themselves if not bigger.

The map affects how the game is played and can make some OP heroes UP and some UP heroes OP it skews all balance so its not easy to make a good map.

It's like asking Football players to play in a different shaped pitch just to make it a bit different. The game won't be played the same and different teams/players would be good at it.

Dota 2 does not require another map as it is balanced for the current map and it does not require any further additional content other than what Icefrog will be patching in later as he continues developing the game from where Dota 1 left off.

On a side note you get any game with a substantial player base and throw money at it and you can make it a competitive game easily.

WoW arena is "competitive" but its the lol joke of the competitive scene only really there cos of the popularity of WoW and the money thrown at it.
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smoth
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by smoth » 18 Aug 2011, 16:51

Mghtyone are you ever on spring mumble? I'd like to chat with you some weekend(can't this weekend because of work)
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TheMightyOne
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by TheMightyOne » 18 Aug 2011, 18:13

Otherside wrote: Also early ganking in LoL is near on pointless due to flash and the game is more passive cos of it simply because you have a free escape button
which works once every 4 minutes.

Its like you didn't even read other people posts... According to your logic people in LoL never die cuz everbody has flash.

you throw the word "competetive" around a lot. but what makes a game competetive? a competition in which one party will win over the other if it performs better. flipping a coin is not a competition, so you could apply your "this is a bad competetive game" phrase here. Poker is a good competetive game. why? cuz the same people manage to get to the final table year after year cuz of their skill. does this apply to LoL? well yes it does, seeing how the same teams manage to get to the finals again and again. so in my definition of competetition there is no "good" or "bad" competetive games. the games are competetive or they are not.

the money thing. no amount of money poured into flip coining will make the game competetive :| money attracts people and people attract money. where there are people, there will be money, where there is money there will be people.
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Gota
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by Gota » 18 Aug 2011, 18:52

The same rant about flash over and over again....
Flash does not ruin the fun for me even though i think summoners in general are not a good idea.

Also, they already said they will change something about it soon.Whatever they do it means it will be nerfed in one way or the other.
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smoth
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by smoth » 18 Aug 2011, 18:58

As interested as I am in this, I would like to read about dota2 I cannot watch any of the videos today due to work.
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Otherside
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by Otherside » 18 Aug 2011, 19:03

Mighty and Gota go back to the LoL thread if you want to keep babbling about LoL.

As I stated any game can be competitive with a big enough playerbase and enough cash. That does not make it a good competitive game.

Sure if a bunch of casual LoL kiddies like watching better players play a game that is fine but that does not make the game a good competitive game.

Also if LoL was truely a competitive dotalike, dota players would have flocked over for the last tournaments. But most if not all the Dota players wouldn't touch LoL with a barge pole at a competitive level unlike HoN which does have quite a few ex Dota pro's. Inb4 they are not good enough to compete, they are just not bothered.

Now GTFO seriously and stop derailing if your not interested in Dota2 stick to the LoL thread and follow your own advice that you keep throwing at me because tbh neither of you have properly talked about Dota 2 in the thread yet apart from maybe smoth who was debating about the visuals a bit.
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TheMightyOne
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by TheMightyOne » 18 Aug 2011, 19:27

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that its ok for you to bash our game in a dota2 thread but not ok for us to defend it. I'll try to keep that in mind.
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Gota
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by Gota » 18 Aug 2011, 19:30

Otherside wrote:neither of you have properly talked about Dota 2 in the thread yet apart from maybe smoth who was debating about the visuals a bit.
Thats funny, since this thread was actually started by me...oops?
Keep going though.

What else is there to talk about i mean they stated its dota 1...the only MAJOR difference are the visuals..
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zwzsg
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by zwzsg » 18 Aug 2011, 19:37

You're all so serious and angry!

Makes me want to flee anything branded "competitive".
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smoth
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by smoth » 18 Aug 2011, 19:51

Funny how I wanted to talk about that isn't it. It's like I was watching it and somehow knew that visuals were a key difference..
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Gota
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by Gota » 18 Aug 2011, 20:25

smoth wrote:Funny how I wanted to talk about that isn't it.
:?:
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Otherside
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by Otherside » 18 Aug 2011, 23:11

TheMightyOne wrote:I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that its ok for you to bash our game in a dota2 thread but not ok for us to defend it. I'll try to keep that in mind.
Stop raging at me for fanboying if you are extremely guilty of the same thing.

+ I never bashed (Calling it non competitive and preferring the Dota2 art style isn't really bashing anyway) LoL until you and gota started whinging.
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smoth
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Re: DOTA 2 ingame screens.

Post by smoth » 18 Aug 2011, 23:33

zwzsg wrote:You're all so serious and angry!

Makes me want to flee anything branded "competitive".
they bring their competitive attitude into everything include which way you should butter your toast.

Yan
Gota wrote:
Otherside wrote:neither of you have properly talked about Dota 2 in the thread yet apart from maybe smoth who was debating about the visuals a bit.
What else is there to talk about i mean they stated its dota 1...the only MAJOR difference are the visuals..
smoth wrote:Funny how I wanted to talk about that isn't it. It's like I was watching it and somehow knew that visuals were a key difference..
saying that pretty much all we have to discuss really is visuals.
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