London Riots - Page 3

London Riots

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hoijui
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Re: London Riots

Post by hoijui »

+lots to flozi and picasso! good posts!

as i heard, one of british gov actions is, that wearing stuff to mask yourself is not allowed anymore. perfect for the famous high video-camera coverage.
btw... what about muslim women?
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Gota
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Re: London Riots

Post by Gota »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... l?ITO=1490

Just read this and i must say some things, not all, seem logical and close to the truth...
I agree with the symptoms and some of the reasons for the riots the writer speculates on, but i don't agree with all the solutions.

I think that all the nonesense of bias towards these youngsters and "capitalism" and the "class differences" is exactly that, nonsense, at least in the way it is presented by most who make such claims.

The process of neighborhoods becoming crime ridden and big amounts of people becoming criminals and/or unemployed is complex, and authority biases in such areas and towards people living in them is not a testimony of how the police is horrible and filled with inhumane people, it is just a self fulfilling prophecy where an area becomes worse the police become more "aware" in it which contributes to the filling that the area really is and should be full of crime.

Like i wrote above i agree with what he is saying about ultimately the lose of a goal and a guiding way for kids in these situation.
They are not prepared for civil adulthood in their homes and they have not enough aid and pushing from surrounding structures, like school to allow them to overcome their burdening home lives.

I dont think however that the solution is more repression by making stricter laws although the lose of respect for the education system must be looked into and is almost universal in the western world.
I think there need to be more systems that will be able to facilitate better a full or a semi substitute for the education and example these kids should have gotten in their home(im not saying they need to be pulled out of their family of course).
Kids need to be pushed and encouraged harder by the system to learn and be productive to be able to overcome the natural shortcomings of being born into a dysfunctional family, and there are many ways in which a family can be dysfunctional which will contribute to a child not getting the education he needs to progress in life.
It seems the overall feeling the system is projecting is of indecisiveness and a lack of concrete strict goals and working solutions.

In this way these young adult are in a sense victims but not of politicians capitalists or the police but of mistakes that are the fault of the entirety of British society.
And im not talking about immigrants since Britain cannot be responsible for individuals not raised within its borders.
Those are just victims of circumstances.
Last edited by Gota on 12 Aug 2011, 00:54, edited 2 times in total.
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Gota
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Re: London Riots

Post by Gota »

I mean people are not even aware of the problems...
I don't mean just some of the posters here who have given it little thought(not that much more is expected from people who are not even living in Britain), im talking about british citizens.

To find a proper solution which will probably be complex you must first and foremost articulate the problem with high precision and find the rout causes for the problems at hand instead of just shouting out slogans about police brutality capitalism and yada yada.
Obviously police brutality exists and not just in england, it is a byproduct of a structure such as the police and there are tools that can and do deal with these issues.

Obviously economic inequality is also important and is part of the problem when you try to look at a country from the broadest sense.

In short the problems are complex and shouting out populist slogans into the air is unfortunately contributing to the problems as well.
The first step is recognizing the rout causes, something almost nobody seems to be able to do including obviously the looters and rioters themselves but it seems that the media who is meant to clarify things to the public is not accentuating reasonable people who can shed light on the complexities of the problem and the complexities of the solutions for the public to understand.
all it does is show looters who are somehow trying to rationalize and blame their shitty lives and decision on others, this is a natural instinctive behavior of any of us.
Throwing blame and encouraging populist outcries is making it all worst.

I want to see social workers interviewed i want to see professionals, both people working in those neighborhoods, if its teachers social workers and police officers, and people who see the broader picture, scientist and professionals that can speculate about the amendments needed or about a complete restructure of the way troubled youths are tackled by the system that will give better results.
I don't want to hear sappy rioters or angry politicians making statements they must make or else they will seem unassertive by the public.
These 2 groups cannot in any way bring a proper solution closer to the law makers if directly or indirectly through public awareness and pressure of citizens who are properly educated about the issue.
Last edited by Gota on 12 Aug 2011, 01:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Gota
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Re: London Riots

Post by Gota »

FLOZi wrote:Brief article by Paul Murphy, Irish MEP

ÔÇ£But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard.ÔÇØ

Martin Luther King, March 14, 1968

Street interview with a Londoner (Video)
Talk about a misuse of a quote.
Are you really comparing the inequality between blacks and whites in the us in MLK's time that caused black people to protest and Britain's youth today?that's like, almost trolling.

The fact both groups rioted does not mean it was for the same reasons.
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smoth
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Re: London Riots

Post by smoth »

Respect yan. Very good posts
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FLOZi
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Re: London Riots

Post by FLOZi »

Gota wrote:
FLOZi wrote:Brief article by Paul Murphy, Irish MEP

ÔÇ£But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard.ÔÇØ

Martin Luther King, March 14, 1968

Street interview with a Londoner (Video)
Talk about a misuse of a quote.
Are you really comparing the inequality between blacks and whites in the us in MLK's time that caused black people to protest and Britain's youth today?that's like, almost trolling.

The fact both groups rioted does not mean it was for the same reasons.
Not comparing at all, it would be ludicrous to do so. Almost as ludicrous as quoting the Daily Heil, though that's hardly surprising coming from someone with extremely conservative views about the treatment of people in his their own country. :regret:
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Das Bruce
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Re: London Riots

Post by Das Bruce »

Don't bait, flozi.
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Gota
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Re: London Riots

Post by Gota »

I dont read that website and dont know what its about.
I read the article cause it was linked to from a reddit post.
I think you have a problem with what you wrote because in Israel nobody talks about one solution or the other as conservative or not no matter what the discussion is about.
Which ideas about the situation here are considered conservative or liberal in the US?
Sounds kinda silly.

From my perspective conservative and liberal is a very strange devision.
I guess for US citizens its natural cause of US history and how the country is organized but in Israel we dont use "conservative" or "liberal".
I did write some of my opinions about whats going on here but I doubt you really know/remember what I think.
I think you just put me in some vague category you got in your head.
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smoth
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Re: London Riots

Post by smoth »

I think it is terribly funny that he would say your post was conservative. It was liberal in it's tone of moral relativism and seeking for larger government social programs. maybe liberal/conservative is different in the uk?
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scifi
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Re: London Riots

Post by scifi »

smoth wrote:I think it is terribly funny that he would say your post was conservative. It was liberal in it's tone of moral relativism and seeking for larger government social programs. maybe liberal/conservative is different in the uk?
in my country liberals are people that defend little goverment intervention, (more private sector), conservatives defend more the state .

So in europe the rigth is liberal the left is conservative(at least in countrys like Portugal/Spain).

Essencialy conservatives defend the current system, liberals want to reform it, it has diferent meanings in diferent countrys.
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FLOZi
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Re: London Riots

Post by FLOZi »

Das Bruce wrote:Don't bait, flozi.
But it's so much fun :P

A surprisingly good view from the telegraphs' chief political commentator:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peter ... he-bottom/
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scifi
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Re: London Riots

Post by scifi »

FLOZi wrote:
Das Bruce wrote:Don't bait, flozi.
But it's so much fun :P

A surprisingly good view from the telegraphs' chief political commentator:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peter ... he-bottom/
Ill repost what i said.

It is a moral madness that has afflicted us. We have turned our backs to politics, and life as a society. Everything is now measured by what you can get out of it for yourself, and all rules and laws are only relative and can be bended to suit you as long as it gets you ahead in an evolutionary struggle.

Take out law and police enforcement, and loot trives.

In the passed there were events that united countrys, either it be wars, or political goals, there isnt that galvanization effect, we just live our daily lives with no purpose at all but to live day after day. When you alianate an entire society, from politics, like the european union, and the monetary union, just to give examples, the society just pulls away from the general politics of the given country.

This passes to the youth of a country as they see a grim future, and the kind of society we live in, a bastard and self-serving one, doesnt help either, schools in witch group behaviour trives, and later in the work world, after a couple generations things get worse.

Also, if we were real citizens we would go out in the streets too, organize rallys, make petitions, activly support a political party , sugest solutions, go in conferences, e.t.c...
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Panda
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Re: London Riots

Post by Panda »

Great posts, Gota.
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AF
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Re: London Riots

Post by AF »

Oh dear lord, somebody posted an article from the Daily Mail.......
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Gota
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Re: London Riots

Post by Gota »

What is so special about dailymail?
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Gota
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Re: London Riots

Post by Gota »

Gota wrote:What is so special about dailymail?
Really the only UK website i know is the guardian.Just cause it is mentioned so much HERE.
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Hoi
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Re: London Riots

Post by Hoi »

Gota wrote:
Gota wrote:What is so special about dailymail?
Really the only UK website i know is the guardian.Just cause it is mentioned so much HERE.
The daily mail is a retarded newspaper. Newspaper is too much honor though, because it is a tabloid that only spreads empty words, hate and celebrity gossip.

The guardian is a good newspaper with a lot of very good articles.
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FLOZi
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Re: London Riots

Post by FLOZi »

Gota wrote:What is so special about dailymail?
For one thing support for British Union of Fascists in the 30's and praising Hitler repeatedly.

In the past 70 years, the politics have changed less than they would claim. Virulently anti-gay, anti-immigrant, anti-muslim, anti-trade union, anti-working class, illiberal, illogical, outright fear-mongering hate-mongering, scare-mongering filth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD2s5deq04k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYorGg9c13s?t=1m40s
Last edited by FLOZi on 12 Aug 2011, 20:51, edited 3 times in total.
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smoth
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Re: London Riots

Post by smoth »

Image
Dennis, there's some good filth over heeyuh...

Sorry fricking minecraft channel's fault..
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KDR_11k
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Re: London Riots

Post by KDR_11k »

smoth wrote:The fact that these rioters raid places like this with the slightest provocation and just take what they bloody well please is indicative of the moral bankruptcy of this generation. these kids all need a fucking good spanking but we have a global society that frowns upon disciplining children properly.
Britain is one of the last countries where spanking your children is legal. Crime experts see that as one of the causes of the riot, violence is seen much more casually.
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