Germany shutting down nuclear reactors

[Gota]

why???how will they replace the power that 17 nuclear stations are generating?

[Wombat]

first of all, they PLAN to.

secondly, u are few months late.

now, yes it is completely stupid. greenpeace started baw baw a lot coz of the japan. thing is there was never any serious casualties coz of nuclear powerplant except chernobyl (which was human mistake anyway). japanese nuclearpowerplant failed coz of tsunami wave, not coz of earthquake (extra cooling system worked fine, until it was flooded (diesel something as far as i remember)). we all know europe doesnt have earthquakes and defintiely not tsunami, so its completely retarded. only purpose of that is to get few more votes in election.

also i dont rly belive they will be ever shut down.

also its not only the problem of germany, its worldwide drama.

how will they replace the power that 17 nuclear stations are generating?

oh, they plan to use solar/wind energy.

bwhahaahaha

they close 7, not 17 btw (17 are their all powerplants). dont forget they were made somewhat before 1980

[Das Bruce]

Solar and wind are ok, but storing the energy they generate to be used when it's wanted is hard.

[MidKnight]

Palm oil kills more than nuclear power.

[Wombat]

Solar and wind are ok

u sound like a greenpeace fan... obviously, they are not. terribly expensive technology with shitty efficiency. not to mention its noisy, looks shitty, kills a lot of insects and birds (what gp forgots to mention for some reason)

Palm oil kills more than nuclear power.

same, gp also forgets to say how much ground u need to make shitty car run, using such oil.

[knorke]

first of all, they PLAN to.
secondly, u are few months late.

more like years too early. They are planning for 2021/2022.
And yes, all that discussion is about <8 plants that are more then 20 years old and basically its to gain some voters.

Solar and wind are ok, but storing the energy they generate to be used when it's wanted is hard.

I think Germany already stores its energy in Austria's pump storage power plant anyway. (obviously not perfect a perfect solution)

[Wombat]

more like years too early

i meant that merkel said this in march already. anyway, solar and wind energy are not any solution.

[jK]

Using ethanol from Brazil for BioGas (10% in standard gas in germany) was a very bad decision. But you can't blame Greenpeace nor the green parties for that, when they promoted BioGas they expected to produce the ethanol in the EU itself (we got a lot of unused acreages).
Btw nuclear powerplants have nothing to do with cars ...
(except you use the upcoming excess energy of windgens & solar to produce hydrogen)

Windgens don't have to be noisy (yes `old` ones create noise), neither showed researches any increase in bird killing. Also have you ever thought about the amount of fish that get sucked in by the cooling pipes from nuclear plants?

And saving the energy is not a problem at all, nor is the transport. Only the oligopolies didn't want to invest in these, cause renewable energy sources are driven by small companies which are their rivals!

Also nuclear energy had ~20% of the german electricity production and we produced ~15-20% more energy than we consumed. So we have no problem at all to shut them down (in contrast to i.e. France which has >70% nuclear energy).

Not to forget that it is just a return to an already existing exit, which the current government stopped 1/2 year ago just to return to it now ...

[Das Bruce]

Also nuclear energy had ~20% of the german electricity production and we produced ~15-20% more energy than we consumed. So we have no problem at all to shut them down (in contrast to i.e. France which has >70% nuclear energy).

I have to ask why you would produce ~15-20% more energy than you consumed, is it being dumped into coolant or is this excess capacity?

[jK]

I have to ask why you would produce ~15-20% more energy than you consumed, is it being dumped into coolant or is this excess capacity?

Selling it to our neighbors.

[HeavyLancer]

The answer to the question 'what will Germany do now?' is simple. It will buy Russian gas so that their renewables can run without breaking the grid, and they will buy electricity from France and the Czech Republic (from their nuclear reactors). They've essentially outsourced their power generation so that they can pander to the batshit-insane Greens.
Ah well, the French will be happy :)

[dansan]

Funny how noone here seems to be concerned about that there is _no_ secure storage for radioactive waste anywhere in the world, and that this problem is not going away anytime soon. Have you seen where and how they store that stuff now? It's only a matter of time (and there is plenty of it) until it gets in contact with ground water, and the inhabitants are pretty screwed then.

BTW: in Japan there some engineers were badly wounded, you don't know what that means for their future lives. Anyway: the region around Fukushima needs 20y of decontamination (see Chernobyl) - I'd say that is a pretty high price to pay for an advFusion

Also a question that needs to be answered: why would you not want to replace a very dangerous and expensive energy production with a safe and cheap one?

If you want to answer "it's cheap": it's not! The producers are not paying for all the health costs of inhabitants of villages in power plant vicinity (high tuberculosis rate) and they are not paying insurance for the worst case (see Tepco - they cannot pay new houses for evacuated ppl, they cannot pay proper first-time-help-money, they cannot pay 20y of terra forming, they don't give the fishers at their cost money).

[Satirik]

So we have no problem at all to shut them down

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 57,00.html

[HeavyLancer]

Funny how noone here seems to be concerned about that there is _no_ secure storage for radioactive waste anywhere in the world, and that this problem is not going away anytime soon. Have you seen where and how they store that stuff now? It's only a matter of time (and there is plenty of it) until it gets in contact with ground water, and the inhabitants are pretty screwed then.

Vitrified spent nuclear fuel is an insoluble glass-like solid - you could douse it in water and there would be no chance that any of the fuel would leak into the water. Ditto for Synroc.
As for permanent waste stores, heard of Onkalo?
And when you use reprocessing you get even less waste that you need to store.

BTW: in Japan there some engineers were badly wounded, you don't know what that means for their future lives. Anyway: the region around Fukushima needs 20y of decontamination (see Chernobyl) - I'd say that is a pretty high price to pay for an advFusion

It's not an issue - Japan is a modern western-style nation with a modern medical system. Note that they didn't sustain injuries from the radiation, too. The workers will be well-looked after - the fallout from negligence for TEPCO would be millions of times worse than the radiation emissions from Fukushima.

If you want to answer "it's cheap": it's not! The producers are not paying for all the health costs of inhabitants of villages in power plant vicinity (high tuberculosis rate)

[citation needed]

[Cheesecan]

Germans are fine because the russians are laying a pipe called Nord Stream under the Baltic sea, so now Germany can depend on Russia for energy. You see what they did there? Used public fear to allow the move into something the public would otherwise protest.

Problem is that Russia likes to invade countries in the Caucasus region which they consider to be in their sphere of influence. EU can't interfere with Russia if their main industrial giant is dependent on Russian energy. Can still sell weapons though.

[Licho]

Its stupid to disable gigantic capital investment.

It will be replaced by fossil fuel which kills many more people (coal powerplants kill hundreds of thosuands due to pollution and also release more radioactivity into environment than nuclear powerplants).

To have renewable generation without massive coal/gas backups you need continent wide supergrid linking sources thousands of km away and that wont happen any time soon even though Merkel + Sarkozy tried to push it.

And yes im pretty sure power producers will be happy to export to germany. Czech republic is already exporting nuclear energy to nuclear-free Austria which protests czech plants so I guess they will just build few more because resistance to nuclear power is minimal here.

[HeavyLancer]

To have renewable generation without massive coal/gas backups you need continent wide supergrid linking sources thousands of km away and that wont happen any time soon even though Merkel + Sarkozy tried to push it.

To run a renewables-saturated electricity grid you need one of three things:

• Abundant hydropower (like Norway and Sweden)
• A reliable supply of natural gas to run peaking power plants (the USA wants to do this with fracked gas)
• Large scale pumped-hydro with a reliable source of backup/baseload power. Guess what the most reliable source of baseload power is (and it emits no CO2 )

[dansan]

Vitrified spent nuclear fuel is an insoluble glass-like solid - you could douse it in water and there would be no chance that any of the fuel would leak into the water. Ditto for Synroc.

It's the "low" radiation waste that is liquid.

Onkalo

It's nice for Finland to have something they trust to be secure for the next 100k years, but in Germany there is no such place. All the places they have been researching for the last 30 years have proven to not work.

And when you use reprocessing you get even less waste that you need to store.

France and Germany have stopped their reprocessing plants, because both felt it's to dangerous.

BTW: in Japan there some engineers were badly wounded, you don't know what that means for their future lives. Anyway: the region around Fukushima needs 20y of decontamination (see Chernobyl) - I'd say that is a pretty high price to pay for an advFusion

It's not an issue - Japan is a modern western-style nation with a modern medical system.

Wow - so as long as injuries can be treated it's OK? Maybe you should tell that to the injured ones.

Note that they didn't sustain injuries from the radiation, too.

Workers at the plant had _direct_ contact with heavily contaminated water - they had heavy burns from the radiation, I guess cancer is knocking on their door now.

The workers will be well-looked after - the fallout from negligence for TEPCO would be millions of times worse than the radiation emissions from Fukushima.

Sure - they still were wounded.

Cost of nuclear power in the US: http://www.citizen.org/cmep/energy_envi ... m?ID=13449

OT: why does my forum-session end so fast I cannot write a single post without logging in again?

[PicassoCT]

They are teching down, reclaiming there powerplants, sabbotating the team.

Ive got to try this- imagine the outrage, if you started to replace adv fissions with solarpannels and windmills on dsd. And so a new generations of trollz was u╔╣oq

[HeavyLancer]

It's the "low" radiation waste that is liquid.

That stuff isn't the problem. You isolate it for a few decades, it cools down. Low level waste isn't just liquid - the hazmat suits, used dosimeters and all other bits of detritus are counted as low level wste as well.

It's nice for Finland to have something they trust to be secure for the next 100k years, but in Germany there is no such place. All the places they have been researching for the last 30 years have proven to not work.

What's wrong with storing it on site?

That's 28 years worth of spent nuclear fuel from the 582 MW Connecticut Yankee Nuclear Power station. All of it. Not bad eh?

France and Germany have stopped their reprocessing plants, because both felt it's to dangerous.

France still does reprocessing at La Hague. Only Germany has shut theirs down.

Wow - so as long as injuries can be treated it's OK? Maybe you should tell that to the injured ones.

Do you care this much about all of the industrial accidents that occur in your country?

Workers at the plant had _direct_ contact with heavily contaminated water - they had heavy burns from the radiation, I guess cancer is knocking on their door now.

If you live long enough you're bound to get cancer. You're more likely to get cancer from eating red meat, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, living near a fossil-fuel power station... Need I go on?

Cost of nuclear power in the US: http://www.citizen.org/cmep/energy_envi ... m?ID=13449

The USA has the highest nuclear power costs because of the regulatory environment. It's heavy-handed and surrounded in a bureaucratic quagmire. The fact that most of the plants are unique designs doesn't help - First Of A Kind projects of anything are expensive. Look to France and China for more realistic costs.