Online Music Collaboration Options?

[SinbadEV]

So, I can sing (well enough I suppose) and I completely FAIL at playing any kind of instrument... and all my friends who play instruments have "lives" now... or suck at doing so.

Now, it's entirely possible that I am utterly WRONG about my vocal prowess so trying to look at local ads for bands and such that might like me sounds like a recipe for embarrassment... also I don't really have much time most of the time to devote to my "craft" so most bands wouldn't want me for that reason...

SO... I was thinking... online there are millions of people who, starved for attention, post videos of themselves playing instruments online so I figured I'd try to find some existing site for online musical collaboration... I've found a few but they limit functionality until you pay them and you can't really tell what they are about until you get into them... and I don't really know what's out there... so I figured I'd ask if anyone has experienced this kinda thing they could give me some suggestions.

[knorke]

and all my friends who play instruments have "lives" now... or suck at doing so.
<->
also I don't really have much time most of the time to devote to my "craft" so most bands wouldn't want me for that reason...

lol.

Wasnt there a video where someone had created a song of different other youtube videos of people singing or play instruments? The video was splitscreen of the various source videos. So an "online band" might be possible.

[Panda]

No, but it wouldn't bother me if you posted in the sound effects and music forum. Otherwise, I'm not sure of how much collaboration would occur because I don't know how many people here are, specifically, into singing. Forb's in a band. Maybe he knows something.

I usually just use my singing skills for holiday events, driving (it's good for you), babysitting, or teaching activities. Churches like singing too.

Perhaps you could take some singing lessons if there's a university or a church nearby, if you don't mind going to either of those places or paying for the university class. They could tell you whether or not you have skills. My singing instructor even tested everyone for tone deafness, but checking for that is not difficult to do if you know anyone who knows how to do it. Also, if you stand up in front of a singing class, choir, or kids and they are all amazed by your singing ability and don't complain, you know you're doing well.

[SinbadEV]

I sing in church every few sundays as part of the music leadership... I took singing lessons when I was a kid, was in a boys choir, the school choir and a close harmony mens group, was in the chorus of a few musicals and operas and was in the college choir (not the good one... but then again my college has masters programs in vocal music so the "good" choir was mostly for music majors.).. I'm generally complimented when I sing karaoke and when I WAS in a band (before I and the rest of the band got lives) I was often complimented for my singing prowess (but as our band was somewhere between heavy metal, punk, folk and blues, just being able to hit the right notes and sing louder then the drummer were my main qualifications)... basically MOST people who hear me singing compliment me for my efforts... but I've never been the lead in a musical, I've never been given the big solo in a choir and I've only ever performed as the primary vocalist to a small number of people.

[Panda]

I don't think that you have to be given a solo part or perform in front of a big group of people to be a good singer and there will always be people out there who are just knocked off and don't know what they're talking about when it comes to critiquing music. What makes a good musician is whether or not he or she gets a big role or the solo part in a choir, it's their ability to correctly sing the song while at the same time, doing a great job of setting the mood and conveying it's overall meaning. This involves having a good understanding of the song and it's meaning, being versatile, interpreting and expressing the song's meaning with style, using the correct body language (shape of the mouth in order to create a flat or more open sound, stance, throat muscles, high voice, low voice, etc.) and making the song flow properly with the correct beat, tempo, rhythm, etc. Surely you've already learned about all of this during your lessons.

Emotional expression of the song is sort of like teaching about a topic you enjoy. For example, I was teaching many students of several different age groups today in math, science, and english. Through out the session I kept receiving compliments about how I seemed to be so happy about teaching these subjects (They were learning about penguins too!) and was asked if I was a teacher. All of my students did well on their quizzes after wards and remembered the material. See, expression can make all the difference.

Is it really that important to you that you receive some sort of special recognition for your singing? I'm not so sure if I would really like that kind of thing and have never been in a band, but there were music majors, very experienced musicians, and grad students in my classes at the university and my grandmother is a good singer who also plays piano.

[Forboding Angel]

Well, I dunno how much my opinion counts for here but these are the things that I consider valuable in a singer.

• Strong voice

• Pitch Perfect (Hitting the notes - and I'm not talking half ass, I'm talking about hitting the damn note)

• Vocal lessons are a huge plus

• Natural talent (for adding flair, etc etc...)

• Vocal quality

• Previous recording experience?

First thing, record yourself and listen to it. If you can't stand your voice, then other people probably don't care for it much either.

Are your hitting the notes?

Does your voice fit the style of music you are trying to sing?

As much as I hate the damn show, Simon Cowell on american idol knows wtf he is talking about and is probably the only judge on the show worthy of the label. So if you happen to watch that show, listen to the advice and apply it to yourself.

If you have any trouble at all hitting the notes, you need more practice. Don't bother wasting the time of a band to try you out if your instrument isn't in tune.

Probably the biggest thing that will get you in hot water fast with a band is not having previous recording experience. Our singer is a total newb to bands in general and especially to recording, which is why our 5 song cd is still in production (has been for the past 4 months). The music is awesome, but we had to do a LOT of work with Cory on his voice. He's a great singer, but lacks experience in the thing that matters possibly the most (recording).

Ehh, synopsis: Before you do ANYTHING, make sure that your voice is ready. I highly suggest singing in front of people you barely know and getting critiques. Your friends will not want to hurt your feelings, but when you're going for something like this, you need honest, brutal, truth.

Speaking of, friday (assuming it's done), I'm planning on posting one of the songs from our cd in the music forum. It's a remake of a CCR song (not gonna tell you which one ;p), so if you're interested, have a peek, and while listening remember that it took 3 months for us to pump this out due to vocals having to be redone multiple times.

[Panda]

• Strong voice

Strong voice is important if you want to be in a rock band. My biggest problem with singing is that I don't have a loud voice and it goes out from time to time when it's cold outside and I have a sore throat.

[Forboding Angel]

Well, having a strong voice doesn't necessarily correlate to volume. You might be interested to know than many rock singers don't yell into the mic at all.

If someone is screaming into the mic hard enough to get hemmoroids from it, that is generally a sign of someone who doesn't know how to sing properly (not to mention shortened vocal lifetime). Once again, you can't always believe what you see. For example, in my band I do a lot of the more meaty backup vocals (and the majority of the soft shit too), and in the process veins will be sticking out of my neck and so forth, but it's just an illusion. I'm not actually putting forth much effort because the volume of what is actually coming out of my mouth is low.

The massive majority of singers you'll see on tv and at major rock shows have had extensive vocal training and know the little tricks to getting more for your money vocally.

Some people's vocals are naturally soft, and there isn't anything wrong with that, however, if it's soft and weak it will be a lot more obvious. You might be surprised with what all gets covered up by having loud volume.

A perfect example, one of my favorite bands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVazZqRkEuE << First Album - His vocals are ok, but are weak (awesome song nonetheless). Pay special attention to the verses and the bridge into the chorus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU3HEEq4LtE << Second Album - Massive improvement. 500x better. Basically dude made some money and got himself some coaching.

I can't stress enough how important vocal coaching is for would-be singers. I myself have had years of vocal lessons. No, it won't turn you into a rock singer if your voice doesn't fit for that style. My own doesn't fit in that manner for a lead (which is a damn shame because I have perfect pitch) vocal role, but I do very well as backups (which is better for me anyway cause then I can play guitar and sing ;p).

If you have a soft voice, you jsut need a decent mic. I highly recommend the Shure Beta 58. They are $100 bucks of solid gold. Anyone who has ever used one of these mics will swear by them (especially rock bands). Another thing is, make sure that you aren't too far away form the mic when singing. Don't worry, it's not gonna bite you. If you're shying away from a mic then it points directly at a lack of confidence and anyone watching will pick up on it quickly.

That said, don't deepthroat the damn thing lol. It doesn't matter how much you suck it off, it's not gonna suck back . Generally try to keep your mouth about an inch or 2 away from it. Most cheaper mics don't pick up very well unless you're eating the damn thing (like my practice mic).

Another thing to learn (vocal lessons will teach you this early on), replace letters who have a hard sound to them with letters who have a soft sound. This is kind of singing 101 here. The reason is so that you don't get harsh pops or clicks when singing.

Singing with a condom on the mic (filter ;p) will reduce that to some extent (I have yet to meet one person who enjoys singing with a mic filter on though, and for good reason, you lose a lot of frequencies with a filter), but it's important to pay attention (honestly, it just takes experience/practice) to exactly what you're saying and how you're enunciating when you sing.

Hopefully some of what I'm saying is at least marginally helpful...

[Caydr]

I'm just interested in seeing a condom on a mic now.

[Forboding Angel]

If you like, I can buy a pack and upload a pic tomorrow.

Favorite brand?

Also in my above post I forgot to mention that as important as all the rest: Vocal Projection is extremely important. You must be able to project your voice. A good vocal coach will have you practicing that for a good long while.

[Panda]

Well, having a strong voice doesn't necessarily correlate to volume.

When speaking, saying someone has a strong voice usually means that they can reach pretty loud volumes naturally and that they naturally project their voice, but I suppose you could say that someone who is skillful at manipulating their vocal chords has a strong voice even though it seems a bit awkward to me.

If someone is screaming into the mic hard enough to get hemmoroids from it, that is generally a sign of someone who doesn't know how to sing properly (not to mention shortened vocal lifetime).

Some people's vocals are naturally soft, and there isn't anything wrong with that, however, if it's soft and weak it will be a lot more obvious. You might be surprised with what all gets covered up by having loud volume.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by weak in this instance, but if you mean that their voice wobbles while trying to sing, I agree that that is a problem. I'm glad my voice is only soft, but that I'm good at hitting the correct notes, monitoring my pace, keeping the song going smoothly, and changing between different tones. However, if someone's voice wobbles a little bit and they are either a beginner or they're very tired, they just need more practice or need to rest. Their voice isn't really weak.

A perfect example, one of my favorite bands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVazZqRkEuE << First Album - His vocals are ok, but are weak (awesome song nonetheless). Pay special attention to the verses and the bridge into the chorus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU3HEEq4LtE << Second Album - Massive improvement. 500x better. Basically dude made some money and got himself some coaching.

If someone is screaming into the mic hard enough to get hemmoroids from it, that is generally a sign of someone who doesn't know how to sing properly (not to mention shortened vocal lifetime).

This guy seems like he's yelling a good bit to me. Five Finger Death Punch's singer's voice sounds scratchy while he's yelling. When he stops yelling, his voice sounds alright. His voice sounds airy (as if he has air caught between his vocal chords because they are not oscillating correctly) while singing in the second song. Because of this, I think he's probably damaging his vocal chords by singing improperly.

I can't stress enough how important vocal coaching is for would-be singers.

Vocal coaching can help singers learn vocal exercises that will make their voices stronger, give them more control, show them how to project their voices, teach them how to listen for beats and notes, teach them what the most healthy way of singing is, and teach them how to not damage their vocal chords while singing.

If you have a soft voice, you just need a decent mic. I highly recommend the Shure Beta 58. They are $100 bucks of solid gold. Anyone who has ever used one of these mics will swear by them (especially rock bands). Another thing is, make sure that you aren't too far away form the mic when singing. Don't worry, it's not gonna bite you. If you're shying away from a mic then it points directly at a lack of confidence and anyone watching will pick up on it quickly.

I'm sure that studio recording equipment and mics are strange to use to anyone who's never used that stuff. It probably sounds strange hearing your voice on those instruments and takes some getting used to. I remember thinking that my voice sounded much different on a tape recorder than it did in an auditorium or in an open area. That doesn't mean that the person has a lack of confidence. It means that they're having some difficulty adjusting to using the equipment. Plus, while talking and singing, people can hear their voice resonating both inside and outside of their head, making it sound different to them than it does to everyone else. Because of that, one could probably see how doing something like wearing headphones while singing into a mic would be strange to someone who has never done that before; It causes them to perceive their voice in a different way.

it's important to pay attention (honestly, it just takes experience/practice) to exactly what you're saying and how you're enunciating when you sing.

Yep, it is important to get a good balance between enunciating your words enough so that people can understand what you're saying and softening your consonants enough to where your vocalization doesn't sound too choppy when it isn't meant to sound choppy.

in my band I do a lot of the more meaty backup vocals (and the majority of the soft shit too), and in the process veins will be sticking out of my neck and so forth, but it's just an illusion. I'm not actually putting forth much effort because the volume of what is actually coming out of my mouth is low.

Some people's veins do stick out more than other people's and usually having your veins stick out a lot is a sign or exertion, but most people's veins will tense up at least a little bit while singing. The important thing is that you are able to properly pay attention to the physiological signals that you are receiving from your own body (this is unique to your body) and act accordingly. For example, if you're really tense, you might have more trouble breathing and, therefore, properly vocalizing than you would if the muscles in your shoulders and neck were more relaxed like when you just got a back massage or put a heat pack on them. The air passage in the throat tends to naturally restrict itself a bit by tightening the throat, chest and shoulder muscles when a person is tense making it necessary for the good singer to practice using those muscles properly so that they don't accidentally hit the wrong note or something. These are muscles that most people aren't even aware of and a lot of them are located on the inside of the body, so you can't directly see them. In order to get really good at controlling them, you have to be able to imagine where they are (anatomy charts are helpful when doing this) and you should study your movements, stances, breathing (very important), and posture (yoga can teach you about that). Volume is not a good variable to use when trying to judge how much energy one is expending while singing. In my opinion, the more easy it is for the air to escape your mouth and the less energy you expend while singing, the better. Singing should not cause you to be frustrated and detrimentally tense because of that frustration.

[Argh]

Probably the best places to find collaborators online, I'd think, is where music's getting made / released daily. For example, go to newgrounds.com, find an instrumental you think is a good fit, and write some lyrics, practice a bit, and try to record it. As Forb said, recording's not like regular singing- amongst other things, you have to work the mic and your voice carefully to keep it in the levels, and timing's a much bigger deal, if you're wanting a polished recording. Just singing off the top of your head won't remotely cut it.

That's probably the easiest way to approach the problem, if you're interested in performing original music. And if whoever you record lyrics for hates it, there's always somebody else.

[Regret]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hhX0KkQBW4

[Tribulex]

hey cool guys! I can sing too! Now I can start a 1 man band!

yay!!!!

sinbad can come too.


Actually, on a more ontopic note, I have done music collaboration before, and basically i used an svn with some mates. SVN is good for everything.

[Forboding Angel]

@panda, I'm trying to stop the walls of text so I'll keep my replies short

Weak voice is easily noticed by wobble combined with pitchyness. For example, sign a single higher or lower note in the upper or lower register of your range (not out of your range, still in your range, but one that is somewhat close to the edge of the spectrum <-- have no idea how to say that). Can you hold the note, stay on pitch without waver? If so, strong vocal chords. If not, needs moar excercises. Keep in mind, that isn't a black and white weak or strong indicator, it's just the easiest to do.

The Shure beta 58 isn't recording equipment (although it is very good for recording), it's definitely stage equipment.

Regarding low confidence... It's one thing if you can't hear yourself, it's another to be shying away from the mic. It doesn't matter how different you sound, you do it. Look at it this way. My band when gigging will play on 10 different PA systems, of course each one sounds a bit different, but you work through it. When you're in front of a crowd you don't get the opportunity of fine tuning EVERYTHING, and the same goes for recording. An engineer will happily throw you out of the building if you start getting uber picky about how shit sounds to you because, frankly, they don't give a shit. If they took every little nitpicky thing on your list (this is the problem we had with our singer, and the little nitpicky stuff is the most extreme form of self conciousness and lack of confidence) they would never get anything done, and studio time is VERY expensive.

Projection is the ability to literally project your voice at a location. I rarely raise my voice but when I do, I project. The reason is, it is 100x stronger, and a million times better tonal quality. Projection is raising volume, but if you can imagine a focused stream of water as opposed to a sprinkler, that's vocal projection.

*Sidenote* Fucking song isn't done being remixed yet, but I have a version that is pretty decent that mike is emailing me today. When I get it I'll maek post in the music forum.

[Panda]

Weak voice is easily noticed by wobble combined with pitchyness. For example, sign a single higher or lower note in the upper or lower register of your range (not out of your range, still in your range, but one that is somewhat close to the edge of the spectrum <-- have no idea how to say that). Can you hold the note, stay on pitch without waver? If so, strong vocal chords. If not, needs moar excercises. Keep in mind, that isn't a black and white weak or strong indicator, it's just the easiest to do.

It doesn't really mean that the person has a weak voice if it it breaks between registers. Everyone has 3 registers that they can sing in (chest, middle, and head for women) and having breaks between the registers just means that the singer has not nor yet learned to coordinate airflow with the actions of the laryngeal (voice box, area that protects the trachea) musculature and resonators in their throat. They just need to learn to improve their coordination by singing through those breaks. I had to practice shifting and singing through changes in registers a lot when I first started singing because, despite my talent for being able to hit very high notes, I was not used to singing in my head voice or in the whistle register and had to practice using my full vocal range. I do well at switching between registers now and am glad that I was able to pick up on everything so quickly. Nonetheless, that kind of thing takes a lot of practice, especially if your new to singing.

Regarding low confidence... It's one thing if you can't hear yourself, it's another to be shying away from the mic. It doesn't matter how different you sound, you do it. Look at it this way. My band when gigging will play on 10 different PA systems, of course each one sounds a bit different, but you work through it. When you're in front of a crowd you don't get the opportunity of fine tuning EVERYTHING, and the same goes for recording. An engineer will happily throw you out of the building if you start getting uber picky about how shit sounds to you because, frankly, they don't give a shit. If they took every little nitpicky thing on your list (this is the problem we had with our singer, and the little nitpicky stuff is the most extreme form of self conciousness and lack of confidence) they would never get anything done, and studio time is VERY expensive.

If your singer was being that picky, I hope he's doing better now.

Projection is the ability to literally project your voice at a location. I rarely raise my voice but when I do, I project. The reason is, it is 100x stronger, and a million times better tonal quality. Projection is raising volume, but if you can imagine a focused stream of water as opposed to a sprinkler, that's vocal projection.

Forb, I already know what projection is and I'm having difficulty following what your trying to say or why you're explaining what projection is. You sound quite mad while talking about hoses and sprinkles while singing, but all of the best people are mad . Anyway, two good examples of projecting, as opposed to the kind that's most often used, sending your voice out in a focused steady stream, are belting and throwing your voice.

*Sidenote* Fucking song isn't done being remixed yet, but I have a version that is pretty decent that mike is emailing me today. When I get it I'll maek post in the music forum.

Good luck on your bands song.

[Panda]

Weak voice is easily noticed by wobble combined with pitchyness. For example, sign a single higher or lower note in the upper or lower register of your range (not out of your range, still in your range, but one that is somewhat close to the edge of the spectrum <-- have no idea how to say that). Can you hold the note, stay on pitch without waver? If so, strong vocal chords. If not, needs moar excercises. Keep in mind, that isn't a black and white weak or strong indicator, it's just the easiest to do.

It doesn't really mean that the person has a weak voice if it it breaks between registers. Everyone has 3 registers that they can sing in (chest, middle, and head for women) and having breaks between the registers just means that the singer has not nor yet learned to coordinate airflow with the actions of the laryngeal (voice box, area that protects the trachea) musculature and resonators in their throat. They just need to learn to improve their coordination by singing through those breaks. I had to practice shifting and singing through changes in registers a lot when I first started singing because, despite my talent for being able to hit very high notes, I was not used to singing in my head voice or in the whistle register and had to practice using my full vocal range. I do well at switching between registers now and am glad that I was able to pick up on everything so quickly. Nonetheless, that kind of thing takes a lot of practice, especially if your new to singing.

Regarding low confidence... It's one thing if you can't hear yourself, it's another to be shying away from the mic. It doesn't matter how different you sound, you do it. Look at it this way. My band when gigging will play on 10 different PA systems, of course each one sounds a bit different, but you work through it. When you're in front of a crowd you don't get the opportunity of fine tuning EVERYTHING, and the same goes for recording. An engineer will happily throw you out of the building if you start getting uber picky about how shit sounds to you because, frankly, they don't give a shit. If they took every little nitpicky thing on your list (this is the problem we had with our singer, and the little nitpicky stuff is the most extreme form of self conciousness and lack of confidence) they would never get anything done, and studio time is VERY expensive.

If your singer was being that picky, I hope he's doing better now.

Projection is the ability to literally project your voice at a location. I rarely raise my voice but when I do, I project. The reason is, it is 100x stronger, and a million times better tonal quality. Projection is raising volume, but if you can imagine a focused stream of water as opposed to a sprinkler, that's vocal projection.

Forb, I already know what projection is and I'm having difficulty following what your trying to say or why you're explaining what projection is. You sound quite mad while talking about hoses and sprinkles while singing, but all of the best people are mad . Anyway, two good examples of projecting, as opposed to the kind that's most often used, sending your voice out in a focused steady stream, are belting and throwing your voice.

*Sidenote* Fucking song isn't done being remixed yet, but I have a version that is pretty decent that mike is emailing me today. When I get it I'll maek post in the music forum.

Good luck on your band's song.

[Forboding Angel]

First block: You're misunderstanding me. I'm talking wobble/pitchyness on a single note. You're talking about switching registers (which of course is quite difficult).

Second block: Yeah he is... Took us a long time to beat it into his ridiculously hard head that he was being a douchebucket.

Third block: I'm utterly confused. I was just making an analogy, nothing more. I'm not mad... *smiley with one eyebrow raised in a confused look*

Fourth block: Well it's not just one song, it's 6 (or 7? Hell I don't remember). One of them the mixing is nearly complete and I was going to post it today, but I called mike (the guy with the track) and told him to email the new one to me, and he emailed me a really old one. I didn't feel like making an issue out of it so I'll just wait and get it at next practice.

[Forboding Angel]

Posted 6 tracks as promised

http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 59#p419459

[Elysium]

Reminds me that i still need to record a cover song if i'm not feeling too lazy.

Anyways,
I'd recommend checking out sevenstring.org, there's quite a few people posting instrumental tracks there & i've seen some posts before of online Collaborations like what you're looking for.