Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

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Sheekel
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Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Sheekel »

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/james ... l-warming/
If you own any shares in alternative energy companies I should start dumping them NOW. The conspiracy behind the Anthropogenic Global Warming myth (aka AGW; aka ManBearPig) has been suddenly, brutally and quite deliciously exposed after a hacker broke into the computers at the University of East AngliaÔÇÖs Climate Research Unit (aka Hadley CRU) and released 61 megabites of confidential files onto the internet. (Hat tip: Watts Up With That)

When you read some of those files ÔÇô including 1079 emails and 72 documents ÔÇô you realise just why the boffins at Hadley CRU might have preferred to keep them confidential. As Andrew Bolt puts it, this scandal could well be ÔÇ£the greatest in modern scienceÔÇØ. These alleged emails ÔÇô supposedly exchanged by some of the most prominent scientists pushing AGW theory ÔÇô suggest:

Conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more.
Regret
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Regret »

If you own any shares in alternative energy companies I should start dumping them NOW.
Yeaaa, nice and unbiased.
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Teutooni
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Teutooni »

James Delingpole is a writer, journalist and broadcaster who is right about everything. He is the author of numerous fantastically entertaining books including Welcome To Obamaland: I've Seen Your Future And It Doesn't Work, How To Be Right, and the Coward series of WWII adventure novels.
Lol...
malric
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by malric »

Sheekel wrote:If you own any shares in alternative energy companies I should start dumping them NOW.
Maybe Sheekel is living in an oil rich country. Otherwise, warming or not, it's not nice to see some people having all the money and the power just because they have a lot of oil/gas, so alternative energies are a winner anyway.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by KDR_11k »

America: The only place where the climate change and abortion are still disputed topics.
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PicassoCT
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by PicassoCT »

Oil its the future, and always will be!
Master-Athmos
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Master-Athmos »

KDR_11k wrote:America: The only place where the climate change and abortion are still disputed topics.
Well it's not about the climate change itself but the reason for it and that's a discussion actually going on everywhere as the manmade climate change is not a set in stone fact but a theory that some scientists disagree with...
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[TS]Lollocide
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by [TS]Lollocide »

Apopo Global warming is one of those ideas that even if its disproven, like ground-into-the-goddamn-dirt-with-a-tractor-and-then-burned-with-napalm disproven, people will still go:

Lol knuckledragger! GOBAL WARMIN IS REAL!

Read state of Fear also.
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momfreeek
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by momfreeek »

a few comments I read that make far more sense than the fanatical-anti-fanatical ravings of the article author:

A spokesman for Greenpeace said: "If you looked through any organisation's emails from the last 10 years you'd find something that would raise a few eyebrows. Contrary to what the sceptics claim, the Royal Society, the US National Academy of Sciences, Nasa and the world's leading atmospheric scientists are not the agents of a clandestine global movement against the truth. This stuff might drive some web traffic, but so does David Icke."
So the point of this article is that people secretly want to make money from both sides of the environmental debate. Wow, you made one huge fucking discovery. Maybe spend more time getting your kids a better education or save some money or conserve some electricity. Bitching about the Leftwing conspiracy is worth less time than bitching about the Rightwing one. Bottom line is that humans are polluting the planet and using up itÔÇÖs resources through over population, ignorance and greed. Do something about those three issues and quit wasting time on this crap.
Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of ÔÇÿAnthropogenic Global WarmingÔÇÖ?

I hope not. Because as ÔÇÿeveryoneÔÇÖ seems to accept, ÔÇÿweÔÇÖ know diddly squat.

...
I would seriously suggest that what is going on climatically is still investigated, and scenarios postulated and allowed for, bearing in mind what can be reasonably deduced. And these do include concessions that man might not be helping still.
Junkmale ÔÇô If youÔÇÖre confused still, well thatÔÇÖs your problem ÔÇô most of us here arenÔÇÖt!
yaosxx on Nov 20th, 2009 at 3:56 pm


I envy your conviction, at least, so thank you for a significant contribution to the discussion.

Funnily enough, I got pretty much the same insightful input over at a discussion coming at the topic from another direction; unsurprising considering the medium. Tribal belonging can be reassuring to a certain kind of mind. Does rather lead to navel gazing rather than challenging debate, mind.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Forboding Angel »

KDR_11k wrote:America: The only place where the climate change...
Wait... you actually believe that crap? Now that's entertaining.
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Argh
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Argh »

America: The only place where the climate change and abortion are still disputed topics.
Er, the article was from, and about, British scientists, looked like.

As for the whole thing: look, whether or not global warming is humanity's fault, the useful thing about talking about this stuff, imo, is that it's lead to a lot of active debate and research about how to finally move away from fossil fuels.

I mean, they really aren't going to last a lot longer at the current price points, and it's almost certainly inevitable that during my lifetime, we'll have to do something else, whether that's something like the current wind / water / solar stuff (which I personally find very dubious economically) bioengineered stuff that eats trash and poops oil-like stuff so that we have a semi-green way to live off our own waste (farm cellulose, etc.), or something really different that nobody's heard of or even thought about yet.

The best part of this whole issue has not been the mainly left-wing politicians trying to convince the First World that we must accept a crappy standard of living to be "fair", but the idea that at some point or another, all this research will lead to a genuine breakthrough in terms of energy production that will raise the standard of living everywhere and be more sustainable. Personally, I think that the longer the global warming issue looks "inevitable", the better, because it keeps so many scientists and engineers focused on solving the real long-term issue, which is how to find enough energy to allow the Earth's population to continue to progress economically.
Sheekel
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Sheekel »

KDR_11k wrote:America: The only place where the climate change and abortion are still disputed topics.
Not only America. Ian Plimer (and others) said it already.

If it isn't warming, the Earth is cooling. It is never static, and
we will never be able to predict it, much less control it! Hubris.

Only 15,000 years ago Ottawa and Kingston (my hometown regions) were under more than a km of ice!

I wish the boffins would focus more on global pollution, deforestation, etc - overpopulation is our biggest causal factor. And hubris...

We need another Moses - or Mosette - to come down off the mountain (even better, the Vatican) with some stone tablets, preferably recyclable if not reusable, this time proclaiming "Thou Shalt Not Procreate (too much)" and "Thou Shalt Respect the Earth and live in harmony with its other inhabitants". There's an essay for the writing - "Ten Commandments for a Third Millennium" .....
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Gota
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Gota »

We have disobeyed the lord too much.
Taking part in orgies,masturbating,doing anal sex.
This all accumulates and the all mighty is writing it all down in his little black notebook of evil deeds.
Armageddon is coming.
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SinbadEV
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by SinbadEV »

Gota wrote:We have disobeyed the lord too much.
Taking part in orgies,masturbating,doing anal sex.
This all accumulates and the all mighty is writing it all down in his little black notebook of evil deeds.
Armageddon is coming.
God keeps track of the good things too... and has promised to forgive anyone who admits they are wrong and decides to try to follow the rules from now on... Though if you look at the old testament... God used to strike people down (along with their families, servants and and animals) for less then the average North American does on a boring Saturday afternoon... and then the whole Jesus thing happened and now we all get a free pass until we die... so on the whole I feel we are being treated rather fairly.

Oh, and the other thing is that the consequences of sin are inherent to the fabric of the universe God created and the rules are there as guidelines to help you avoid those consequences (as opposed to him keeping track of and punishing people for it)... comparable to "Don't go swimming in a Geyser", "Wait an hour after swimming to eat" and "Buckle your seat belts".
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KDR_11k
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by KDR_11k »

Forboding Angel wrote:
KDR_11k wrote:America: The only place where the climate change...
Wait... you actually believe that crap? Now that's entertaining.
Says the creationist.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Forboding Angel »

KDR_11k wrote:
Forboding Angel wrote:
KDR_11k wrote:America: The only place where the climate change...
Wait... you actually believe that crap? Now that's entertaining.
Says the creationist.
Now what gave you that idea?
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KingRaptor
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by KingRaptor »

lol @ no-one discussing the actual leaked CRU documents

The leak doesn't prove or disprove AGW. What it does prove is that several top climate scientists are guilty of runaway academic dishonesty and general bad behavior including obstructing FOIA requests, using tricks to manipulate data, colluding to marginalize journals publishing papers that they disagree with, gloating over the deaths of opponents, brazen ad hominem attacks, and other such actions.

eg 942777075.txt:
From: Phil Jones
To: ray bradley ,mann@xxxxx.xxx, mhughes@xxxx.xxx
Subject: Diagram for WMO Statement
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:31:15 +0000
Cc: k.briffa@xxx.xx.xx,t.osborn@xxxx.xxx

Dear Ray, Mike and Malcolm,
Once TimÔÇÖs got a diagram here weÔÇÖll send that either later today or
first thing tomorrow.
IÔÇÖve just completed MikeÔÇÖs Nature trick of adding in the real temps
to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from
1961 for KeithÔÇÖs to hide the decline. MikeÔÇÖs series got the annual
land and marine values while the other two got April-Sept for NH land
N of 20N. The latter two are real for 1999, while the estimate for 1999
for NH combined is +0.44C wrt 61-90. The Global estimate for 1999 with
data through Oct is +0.35C cf. 0.57 for 1998.
Thanks for the comments, Ray.

Cheers
Phil

Prof. Phil Jones
Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) xxxxx
School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) xxxx
University of East Anglia
Norwich Email p.jones@xxxx.xxx
NR4 7TJ
UK
Explanation for what the above email is about

This is about a few bad apples engaging in blatantly unethical acts, and thus damaging the credibility of science as a whole.
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Peet
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Peet »

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smoth
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by smoth »

KDR_11k wrote:America: The only place where the climate change and abortion are still disputed topics.
yeah :(.

I wish we would get off of the whole climate change thing and just do it because we shouldn't shit in our bed as it were...

@op: I don't understand, is the write on crazy juice or something? Who invests in alternative energy and really expects a real return?
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of AGW?

Post by Forboding Angel »

Of course these idiots are too stupid to utilize the concept of using what we have while moving to something better...

The problem is, there IS nothing better than fossil fuels atm, other than nuclear energy, and we aren't allowed to use those either. Hydrogen is a bust, because it's too expensive, not to mention unstable.

"Climate Change" is subversion, and I don't particularly care for subversion. I do think it's cute that people think that they are single handedly capable of destroying an entire planet. The sad part is that they have to buy into some bullshit like "Global Warming" to get them to do things they should have been doing already (I.E. Recycling).

Didn't anyone else notice the irony of the immediate switch to "Climate Change" once "Global Warming" was proven to be utter bs? When I was growing up, it was ice ages and global cooling. People today forget that little nugget. The funny thing is, in the past couple years, the earth has actually been colder all around. Moreover, measurments started in what... the 80's? Early 90's?

And even more entertaining, visit http://www.surfacestations.org for a laugh.
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