wtf is wrong with the American right?

wtf is wrong with the American right?

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Relative
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wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by Relative »

As a dual citizen of the US I do keep a check on the political scene there, but lately I have become increasingly distressed over the quality of discourse coming from the American right. There is no doubt the quality of argument coming from the right (and of the general discourse to a certain extent) has been deteriorating for a number of years, but with the health care debate it has reached a new and disturbing low. This guardian article nicely sums up some of what I mean.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/au ... can-health

Death panels? Kill Granny? Organ harvesting from the lower classes? Nazism and communism somehow simultaneously? Ted Kennedy and Stephen Hawking would both be dead if they lived in the UK? (ignoring the fact that Stephen Hawking has been treated by the NHS his whole life: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-NHS.html)

This is base and baseless stuff.

Also for the enjoyment of those who don't know any better how does it feel spend 10x more than cuba per capita yet have inferior results? Feels like crap to me.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... care-obama
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by bobthedinosaur »

hey! Do we have to kick you red coats out another time?
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smoth
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by smoth »

you are seriously buying all that stuff? By all means take a step back and realize that this stuff is all gross exaggeration.
HectorMeyer
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by HectorMeyer »

Well, I am enjoying it so far. I mean, there's at least one crazy youtube video daily - "Birthers", Naked Argentinian hikes, "Tea bagging" et cetera ad nauseum - I could continue this list for a good while.

Yeah, but I understand your concern. Especially from a foreign perspective its really ridiculous.
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[TS]Lollocide
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by [TS]Lollocide »

I laughed. So its much better to have no Federal Health Service because the alternative is somehow....more evil than simply letting people die with no chance under the current system.
Imperium
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by Imperium »

This makes me angry.
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Caydr
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by Caydr »

At least they're failing at something. Canadian politicians somehow manage to fail even when they're doing nothing.

Less than 50% voter turnout at every election. That's how impressed we are by the pointless posturing and screaming like children all day. There are actually more of us that would prefer none of them even be in the running than there are ones who want those shaved monkeys running the country.

In Canada we have a few different parties that try to take power. Recently, all the "losers" ganged up on the "winner" and tried to overthrow the government. They did this by cutting a deal with a party whose stated objective is to break up the country - they literally allied themselves with people who want to destroy Canada. They managed to hold this together until the Evil Genius said "Ok, that's in your rights if you want to try and do that. But let's all take a month off and see if you're still talking to each other". Shocker: the coalition of the unable couldn't hold it together even that long.

Our current prime minister, for all his failings, is smart at least. Every time someone tries to pick a fight with him he threatens to trigger another election (we've had, I think, 3 in the past 4 years or something?), and since his party is the only one that still has any money left for advertising the others calm down pretty fast. I'll take Mr. Smart Evil over Inept Good any day.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by Forboding Angel »

Relative wrote:As a dual citizen of the US I do keep a check on the political scene there, but lately I have become increasingly distressed over the quality of discourse coming from the American right. There is no doubt the quality of argument coming from the right (and of the general discourse to a certain extent) has been deteriorating for a number of years, but with the health care debate it has reached a new and disturbing low. This guardian article nicely sums up some of what I mean.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/au ... can-health

Death panels? Kill Granny? Organ harvesting from the lower classes? Nazism and communism somehow simultaneously? Ted Kennedy and Stephen Hawking would both be dead if they lived in the UK? (ignoring the fact that Stephen Hawking has been treated by the NHS his whole life: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-NHS.html)

This is base and baseless stuff.

Also for the enjoyment of those who don't know any better how does it feel spend 10x more than cuba per capita yet have inferior results? Feels like crap to me.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... care-obama

Sigh, and none of those articles have any bias? It's easy to paint people as fanatics if you want to. A few out of context statements here, etc etc, rinse and repeat.

You wanna hear something funny? 68% of Americans oppose it, and they are still trying to ram it home like a good little rapist.

Edit: Also, I liked Obama's audacity: "I don't care whether you like it or not, we're going to get this passed by December!" Yeah great guy. Can't wait to see what the next 3 years are gonna be like.

Edit2: Are you saying that health care rationing doesn't happen in Brittan? Cause if your answer would be yes, then you should wake up. America has the best HealthCare in the world (which is why people from other countries come here for care). Now why would we want to give that up?

Edit3:
Hack reporter wrote:Defenders of Britain's system point out that the UK spends less per head on healthcare but has a higher life expectancy than the US.
United Kingdom ÔÇö Population: 60,943,912 (July 2008 est.)
United States ÔÇö Population: 303,824,640 (July 2008 est.)

Hey, good job on your homework!

Edit4:
Twitter Commentator wrote:Urbanitejewelry, an American in Britain, wrote: "I'm an american in the UK. Had a bad health scare a few months back and was well taken care of, no money involved. incredible."
Hi everyone, I'm Neil Armstrong and I've walked on the moon! You should always believe everything you read on the internet, cause if it's on the internet, it must be true!

Edit5:
Random internet statistics table wrote:Hey here are some numbers in a very incomplete and misleading graph.
Hmm, that graph seems awfully incomplete... Oh wait, I forgot, I'm Neil Armstrong and I believe everything I read on the Internet, so you should too!

Edit6: And I forgot the most important part...

I don't ever want to be put on a fucking waiting list for health care! The very idea is absurd!


Oh btw, apparently I'm a fanatic because I don't like Obama's (a.k.a. The Messiah's) Healthcare plan. Oh wait I'm sorry, Obama hasn't even read it. The house wrote this plan. Ok well apparently I'm a fanatic because I don't like a health care plan written by congress (who doesn't pay taxes and would not be subject to this plan (they get their own sort of personal healthcare)), because frankly, congress (all of the bastards) have given me plenty of reasons not to trust any of them.

Oh and btw, for a good read and a solid "WTF!?!?!" read pages 390 - 407 of the healthcare bill.
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Relative
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by Relative »

not going to bother commenting on all of that, but one thing:
Edit3:
Hack reporter wrote:
Defenders of Britain's system point out that the UK spends less per head on healthcare but has a higher life expectancy than the US.


United Kingdom ÔÇö Population: 60,943,912 (July 2008 est.)
United States ÔÇö Population: 303,824,640 (July 2008 est.)

Hey, good job on your homework!
PER CAPITA, dumbass.

And you are deluded if you think that US health care is the best general health care system.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by Forboding Angel »

Read again. I said the best healthcare, meaning Quality of care. I said nothing of the system, however, I like our healthcare system quite a lot in comparison to socialized medicine.

Less per head, ok, per capita. You forgot one thing, namely the some 60 million illegal aliens roaming around who can't (or don't) pay for care they receive. It's not real hard to figure out why so much money isn't being recouped.
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

I guess it depends how you look at it.

british healthcare is free and avaliable to anyone, rich or poor. there are wait-times of up to a year for non-emergency problems like arthritus and stuff like that, but if you pay privately as per america you can skip the que.

free british healthcare dosnt have access to new and expensive treatments because it has to operate to a budget and cater for a majority of the population.

private british healthcare is much the same as the american system, if you and your insurance can pay up you can get whatever you want.

american healthcare is privatised yes? so I suppose its pretty similar if you have insurance and money, and none existant if you are poor. bearing in mind britain has this option, AND the free option- I'm not sure I would consider americans system the superior option.
Relative wrote: PER CAPITA, dumbass.

And you are deluded if you think that US health care is the best general health care system.
very much truth, I would bet anything the best healthcare will be operating somewhere in europe, like switzerland or sweeden.
tombom
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by tombom »

You wanna hear something funny? 68% of Americans oppose it, and they are still trying to ram it home like a good little rapist.
Even discounting every single other lie or distortion in your post, this is absolutely disgusting. You are comparing rape to politicians voting for health care reform, which was part of the platform they were voted in on
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Forboding Angel
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by Forboding Angel »

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:american healthcare is privatised yes?
No it isn't, you would think it is, but it isn't in reality. The way that part of it works is really really wierd.
tombom wrote:Even discounting every single other lie or distortion in your post, this is absolutely disgusting. You are comparing rape to politicians voting for health care reform, which was part of the platform they were voted in on

Lies and distortion? This coming from someone who gets his info from british reporters on the internet? Come on, you can do better than that.

Considering they are proposing raping the current system, it's not real hard to understand.

Oh any, how many of you live here? Oh that's right, that would be NONE of you (excepting bobthedinosaur and smoth).

So let me get this straight. Even though you don't live under our system (and never have for any extended period of time), you are qualified to say that I'm wrong, when I actually live under said system, but I'm also wrong when I point out that your system is flawed, dangerous, and total shit? Isn't that the same thing that you're telling me?

Hmmm, I can go to the doctor tomorrow if I need care urgent care. Can you? Oh right, those silly waiting lists, no matter that your emergency isn't life threatening and just hurts a hell of a lot, take some asprin, you'll feel better.
[TS]Lollocide wrote:I laughed. So its much better to have no Federal Health Service because the alternative is somehow....more evil than simply letting people die with no chance under the current system.
Here people get care if they need it, when they need it. Illegal immigrants get health care all the time and can't be billed for it (a little hard without a valid social security number or valid ID now isn't it?).

Simply letting you die... How ignorant are you?
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KDR_11k
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by KDR_11k »

Forboding Angel wrote:Less per head, ok, per capita. You forgot one thing, namely the some 60 million illegal aliens roaming around who can't (or don't) pay for care they receive.
So how can they drive up the "money spent on healthcare" number if they're not paying?
Forboding Angel wrote:I don't ever want to be put on a fucking waiting list for health care! The very idea is absurd!
Then you're in luck, unless you need non-urgent specialist stuff that doesn't happen. General doctors are common enough that you can get to them immediately and a specialist will make room for urgent cases. Oh and did we mention that you don't have to ask your employer whether dental stuff is covered?
Last edited by KDR_11k on 13 Aug 2009, 13:43, edited 1 time in total.
tombom
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by tombom »

honestly i didn't talk about any other aspect of your post just because the rape analogy was so _wrong_
Hmmm, I can go to the doctor tomorrow if I need care urgent care. Can you? Oh right, those silly waiting lists, no matter that your emergency isn't life threatening and just hurts a hell of a lot, take some asprin, you'll feel better.
Yes, I can. Although it varies a little by the doctor (you can choose your GP and surgery), I can phone up today and get an appointment tomorrow, and there are "drop-in" sessions where you can go and get checked out without an appointment. so welp.
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JohannesH
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by JohannesH »

Forboding Angel wrote:This coming from someone who gets his info from british reporters on the internet?
So if reporters are all full of shit, whats a good source then? Or is it better to read it from the papers?
Hmmm, I can go to the doctor tomorrow if I need care urgent care. Can you?
Yes.
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lurker
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by lurker »

Forboding Angel wrote:Read again. I said the best healthcare, meaning Quality of care. I said nothing of the system, however, I like our healthcare system quite a lot in comparison to socialized medicine.

Less per head, ok, per capita. You forgot one thing, namely the some 60 million illegal aliens roaming around who can't (or don't) pay for care they receive. It's not real hard to figure out why so much money isn't being recouped.
The government currently pays over twice as much per capita as the UK. If there was some magic switch to throw we could afford hundreds of millions of freeloaders.
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Gota
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by Gota »

Yes,the UK based guardian is a very objective news source,
Especially when comparing the US health care system and debate about it with the UK healthcare system...

Do journalists even try to be objective these days?
Or have they all accepted the fact it's probably impossible,hence lets just go all out propaganda.
Regret
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by Regret »

Forboding Angel wrote:socialized medicine.
Haha obvious brainwashing is obvious.
pintle
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Re: wtf is wrong with the American right?

Post by pintle »

Forb yet again single handedly dissuades me from making a contribution to what could have been an interesting and meaningful debate...
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