California dumping welfare?

California dumping welfare?

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Forboding Angel
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California dumping welfare?

Post by Forboding Angel »

I don't think it will actually happen, but I'm very interested to see what will happen if it does.

Welfare is bullshit anyway, it gives you just enough so that you don't starve, and the moment you get a decent job of any consequence you lose the welfare which forces you to go back to welfare because you don't have enough time to get back on your feet, it's ridiculous. Welfare is a system designed to keep poor people poor. Instead of doing it the way it is currently done, wouldn't it make more sense to give a qualified person a big hand up initially?

And by that I mean helping people get a job (hell even mcdonalds pays 8 bucks an hour now, that is enough to live on fairly decently assuming you don't overdo it), then into a living situation where they can afford their bills on their new job and give them say a month or two of breathing room.

That makes a heck of a lot of more sense than what is in place currently. Welfare was obviously thought up by some white haired asshole trying to make himself look good cause people are too stupid to read the fine print.
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Sabutai
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Sabutai »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_B ... egislation

Bismarcks aim was to bribe the worker class without them gaining any actual benefits.
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PicassoCT
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by PicassoCT »

wellfare was dumped during great depression resulting in hoovervills, comunism and the nazi movement...

I guess USA have been politically stable to long and want a taste of the good old Anarchy back, that many nice countrys without wellfare had & still have.
Journier
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Journier »

Thomas Jefferson, one of our founding fathers stated that America should have a revolution with every generation of people.

The American people base themselves off the constitution but never know what the founding fathers ever meant only what they are told from history books and politicians/judges.

If you go back and read actual things the founding fathers wrote you would see what they meant with the constitution clear as day on most of the amendments.


Anyways, more on topic.

California is a bankrupt shithole, that overspends every year and has tried to fix the budget like what 3 times this year already and failed every time?

That is why they are talking about cutting wellfare. They couldnt act earlier when they saw the things on the horizon.
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Boirunner
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Boirunner »

the founding fathers were racist, slaving, genocidal imperialist assholes, and amercia needs to fucking come to terms with that.

if you have a horrible past and lose a war, everyone needs to deal with it. if you win the war, you can kill an entire CONTINENT of people, bring in slaves from another (thereby royally fucking over that one, too), and can still idealize the people who did it two hundred years later.
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Gota
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Gota »

do you think that the fact they were wrong on one issue or their views are outdated when judging them today, means they were not correct about many others?
Journier
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Journier »

Boirunner wrote:the founding fathers were racist, slaving, genocidal imperialist assholes, and amercia needs to fucking come to terms with that.

if you have a horrible past and lose a war, everyone needs to deal with it. if you win the war, you can kill an entire CONTINENT of people, bring in slaves from another (thereby royally fucking over that one, too), and can still idealize the people who did it two hundred years later.
Im happy you feel that our countries founding fathers were worthless since most of them agreed with slavery (a common practice at the time).

God forbid that occurred.

You know the Americans invented slavery, and there were only black slaves and they were beaten every hour of every day by racists.
:roll:

The whole "kill an entire continent" of people is sorta bs, by the time The USA was founded most of the continents people had been killed off by disease. We moved em around alot after, but cmon.
bring in slaves from another (thereby royally fucking over that one, too),
Oh good one, yea people taking slaves in Africa totally ruined it for future generations in Africa. HA HA HA HA. Africa never had its shit together once, and I dont believe it will as a whole ever and thats with one of the most rich continents on earth.

You do know Africans enslaved other Africans and then sold them to Slave ships right?
k.
genocidal imperialist assholes, and amercia needs to fucking come to terms with that.
You also would be incorrect in this statement as well, The Founding fathers were about as far from Imperialists as you could get. They just wanted to be left alone.

I think you should educate yourself before mouthing off sounds like blind hatred for Americans as usual.
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Boirunner
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Boirunner »

Journier wrote:Im happy you feel that our countries founding fathers were worthless since most of them agreed with slavery (a common practice at the time).

God forbid that occurred.
it was not a common practice to take slaves from another race and contient, and america is still the only country to have ever done it in that dimension.

all developed cultures had some form of aristocracy, but there was a concept of being responsible for ones serfs. in america, slaves where deliberately imported and classified as subhumans, so you could do with them as you pleased.
You know the Americans invented slavery, and there were only black slaves and they were beaten every hour of every day by racists.
:roll:
no they didn't, but they industrialized it. they took it to a whole new level. the bred their slaves for strength, dehumanized them, and took the abuse to a whole new level.
The whole "kill an entire continent" of people is sorta bs, by the time The USA was founded most of the continents people had been killed off by disease. We moved em around alot after, but cmon.
what the fuck do you mean, come on? this is bullshit, and you know it. yeah some indians died, but so did a fuckton of europeans to the pest. it would have gone on. but the white guys at the time just rolled in and took over, killing any remaining resistance on the way.

think about that: north america could be just like china, russia, india, europe or south america right now. a place with its own culture, own people, and own language. but instead, you fuckers commited genocide on an entire continent and just took over. goddamn degenerated englishmen. it's a goddamn disgrace!
bring in slaves from another (thereby royally fucking over that one, too),
Oh good one, yea people taking slaves in Africa totally ruined it for future generations in Africa. HA HA HA HA. Africa never had its shit together once, and I dont believe it will as a whole ever and thats with one of the most rich continents on earth.

You do know Africans enslaved other Africans and then sold them to Slave ships right?
k.
you are such an asshole it hurts. just because one continent was slower to discover technology it means the people there are worth less?

and of course you'll find tribes there who were willing to betray others - you can find people like you anywhere. does that make it okay that england made huge amounts of people addicted to opium? after all, the guys smoked it themselves!
genocidal imperialist assholes, and amercia needs to fucking come to terms with that.
You also would be incorrect in this statement as well, The Founding fathers were about as far from Imperialists as you could get. They just wanted to be left alone.
yeah, left alone in their little paradise created by european nations that was taken away from its former owners. america at that time as about as legitimate as israeli expansive settlers are today.
I think you should educate yourself before mouthing off sounds like blind hatred for Americans as usual.
i think you should stop with your idiotic patriotism before fanboying for your shitty country.

people say, stop your superficial anti-americanism.

yeah well, my anti-americanism isn't all that superficial.
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FLOZi
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by FLOZi »

Owned by Boirunner. 8)
tombom
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by tombom »

Africa never had its shit together once, and I dont believe it will as a whole ever and thats with one of the most rich continents on earth.
Most racist thing I've read in a long while.
I think you should educate yourself before mouthing off sounds like blind hatred for Americans as usual.
Educate yourself on African history too, thanks!
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Sgt Doom
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Sgt Doom »

Boirunner, the laser-guided bunker buster of forum debates.
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Boirunner
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Boirunner »

oops, that other post pissed me off so much i forgot this other piece of impersonated stupidity.
Gota wrote:do you think that the fact they were wrong on one issue or their views are outdated when judging them today, means they were not correct about many others?
no, but i disagree that their agreeing with any of them can be considered an argument for these issues.

so, some ideas may be valid even though the founding fathers supported them, not because they did.
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Journier »

Journier wrote:Im happy you feel that our countries founding fathers were worthless since most of them agreed with slavery (a common practice at the time).

God forbid that occurred.
it was not a common practice to take slaves from another race and contient, and america is still the only country to have ever done it in that dimension.
It wasnt? this is truelly news to me good sir, since noone in the world started banning slavery till the 1820's and the french were even later.

Im pretty sure this relates to your failure to understand the timeline the discussion came from which was The founding fathers and how you thuoght that since they had slaves anything they did didnt matter.

This time period we are talking about would be in the area of 1770 on till 1780's, not the 1830's or even later on as you seem to be indicating.

Once again your mistake.
all developed cultures had some form of aristocracy, but there was a concept of being responsible for ones serfs. In America, slaves where deliberately imported and classified as subhumans, so you could do with them as you pleased.
Why are you even talking about Serf's in this time period?

Serfs were used through the 1300's and on and most serfdom's were gone by the 1700's. Russia still had serfs till 1860's though. so i guess your sorta on the level.

but did you know the Serfs in Russia were originally Slaves? the Russians freed the Slaves, to become Serfs. Still about as low as you can get in a culture, you still had to BUY your freedom, it was not yours.

Slavery was still thriving in those countries though.

To your point, All slaves had very few rights, your saying the same thing twice.

And your are bypassing the issue that America was not the only Country that had slaves, Slavery was part of every nations economy nearly in the Mediterranean at the time. Islamic nations had a very large slavery market "that took people from other nations", and sold them along the Mediterranean. The slave trade was very big on the Mediterranean till the 1800's.

what the fuck do you mean, come on? this is bullshit, and you know it. yeah some indians died, but so did a fuckton of europeans to the pest.
Uh right, just "some" Indians died.
It wasnt like 80 or 90% of the population of the New World died off from Old World diseases, that the Europeans had built up a resistance to.

No not at all. We only killed "some" of them with disease. The rest we butchered.

good argument.
north america could be just like china, russia, india, europe or south america right now. a place with its own culture, own people, and own language. but instead, you fuckers commited genocide on an entire continent and just took over. goddamn degenerated Englishmen,German, french, italian, russian, african, polish, Swedish, Finnish, Brazilian, Chinese, "Mexicans", Native Americans <-- we killed those off mainly) it's a goddamn disgrace!
Yea I agree with you there buddy, America is a single nation with a single people, no minorities, or culture that divides it, and we have no towns that have a history of strong cultural ties with there home nation, such as germany, towns like Frankfort, I live near. where the original town was made up of 90% of German Settlers, and the grave stones on some of the earliest grave markers were in German. that must be my imagination. :roll:

Nope we are all 1 nation of 1 people, no culture.
you are such an asshole it hurts. just because one continent was slower to discover technology it means the people there are worth less?
Never said that, stop making a straw man argument.
and of course you'll find tribes there who were willing to betray others - you can find people like you anywhere. does that make it okay that england made huge amounts of people addicted to opium? after all, the guys smoked it themselves!
1)Once again straw man arguement.
2) I dont sell my own people from my own country into slavery.
3) Im not arguing that fact about Opium....
4) would you stay on topic?

yeah, left alone in their little paradise created by european nations that was taken away from its former owners. america at that time as about as legitimate as israeli expansive settlers are today.
another straw man argument but ill ride with it.

Yea, Europeans made a Paradise of cities and taxes in the United States, hell across the New World, thats why we revolted, and started a revolution, thats why Europe has nearly no control over any part of the New World anymore.

Everyone just wanted your rich cities. Not like the Europeans were overtaxing the colonies or anything.
yeah, left alone in their little paradise created by european nations that was taken away from its former owners.
[/quote]

the European nations never created anything in the new world, what they did do was after the Settlers had got everything running real good made good trading deals with the colonies that would exchange manufactured goods for raw goods.

The same thing they did in India, had the indians create Raw Materials, ship it off to England, then ship it back to the indians to buy as a finished good. This was done with all nations.

I figured you would know this since you said the American founding fathers were Imperialists.

When the truth is the European nations in the new world were Imperialists.

And im now done with you and this thread, feel free to continue, i think its derailed enough as it is.


The discussion was on California getting its wellfare dropped.
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Boirunner
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Boirunner »

Journier wrote:
it was not a common practice to take slaves from another race and contient, and america is still the only country to have ever done it in that dimension.
It wasnt? this is truelly news to me good sir, since noone in the world started banning slavery till the 1820's and the french were even later.
i explicitly stated that slavery was not exclusive to north america, but that it had taken it to a whole new level. you are just contradicting the part of my sentence i said was wrong.
Im pretty sure this relates to your failure to understand the timeline the discussion came from which was The founding fathers and how you thuoght that since they had slaves anything they did didnt matter.

This time period we are talking about would be in the area of 1770 on till 1780's, not the 1830's and on as you seem to be indicating.
how the hell did you twist and turn my argument in your head to come to the conclusion that i was talking about the 1830s?
Once again your mistake.
once again? this is the first argument your post is referring to. you can't even fucking count. to one.
all developed cultures had some form of aristocracy, but there was a concept of being responsible for ones serfs. In America, slaves where deliberately imported and classified as subhumans, so you could do with them as you pleased.
Why are you even talking about Serf's in this time period?

Serfs were used through the 1300's and on and most serfdom's were gone by the 1700's. Russia still had serfs till 1860's though. so i guess your sorta on the level.
did you just look up serf on wikipedia? the point of my argument was, even the caste system in india - while being horribly injust and inhuman - had a concept of being responsivle for the wellbeing of ones underlings. yes, there inherent value differences between social groups, but the higher ones had religious and humanitarian imperatives to keep the lower ones satisfied. in america, this was explicitly denied.

the argument for the somewhat socially councious americans whas: well i tought them christianity, so they have a chance to go to heaven. all cruelty i have done upon them is nullified by this.

they were assholes to the extreme.
but did you know the Serfs in Russia were originally Slaves? the Russians freed the Slaves, to become Serfs. Still about as low as you can get in a culture.
you are pretty fucking stupid, i'll give you that. my entire point was that other countries had at least some ethics and morality in dealing with slaves, while america had none.
Slavery was still thriving in those countries though.
how often do you want to repeat this? i explicitly stated that every developed nation had the concept of posession of humans, but that america had been particularly and extremely dehumanizing in this.
To your point, All slaves had very few rights, your saying the same thing twice.
thats the goddamn pot calling the kettle black.
And your are bypassing the issue that America was not the only Country that had slaves, Slavery was part of every nations economy nearly in the Mediterranean at the time. Islamic nations had a very large slavery market "that took people from other nations", and sold them along the Mediterranean. The slave trade was very big on the Mediterranean till the 1800's.
again? seriously, you're saying the same thing again? that's like the fourth time, and it's still not even recognizing my original argument.

what the fuck do you mean, come on? this is bullshit, and you know it. yeah some indians died, but so did a fuckton of europeans to the pest.
Uh right, just "some" Indians died.
It wasnt like 80 or 90% of the population of the New World died off from Old World diseases, that the Europeans had built up a resistance to.
the figure of 80 to 90% is ridiculous, even reactionary papers list it as only existing in particularly intense sections of infection. my example of the black plague holds, it certainly killed 80 to 90% of the population in heavily effected areas. yet still, europeans survived.
No not at all. We only killed "some" of them with disease. The rest we butchered.

good argument.
it is, actually.
Yea I agree with you there buddy, America is a single nation with a single people, no minorities, or culture that divides it, and we have no towns that have a history of strong cultural ties with there home nation, such as germany, towns like Frankfort, I live near. where the original town was made up of 90% of German Settlers, and the grave stones on some of the earliest grave markers were in German. that must be my imagination. :roll:

Nope we are all 1 nation of 1 people, no culture.
i never said america had only one culture. i said the founding fathers were racist, genocidal, imperialist assholes. i never said anything about the current america, except that it should fucking stop idealizing its past.
you are such an asshole it hurts. just because one continent was slower to discover technology it means the people there are worth less?
Never said that, stop making a straw man argument.
what? you said:
Oh good one, yea people taking slaves in Africa totally ruined it for future generations in Africa. HA HA HA HA. Africa never had its shit together once, and I dont believe it will as a whole ever and thats with one of the most rich continents on earth.
so if killing and enslaving and abusing people who 'didn't have their shit together' is ok, then those people must be worth less. except if you have a really fucking stupid system of ethics. which i would't put beyond you.
and of course you'll find tribes there who were willing to betray others - you can find people like you anywhere. does that make it okay that england made huge amounts of people addicted to opium? after all, the guys smoked it themselves!
1)Once again straw man arguement.
strawman argument means, that i extrapolate a position i think you might have, and then counter that one, instead of the one you presented. you clearly said that africa 'didn't have it's shit together' and so diserved to be perversely exploited. i therefore correctly inferred that you are a complete asshole. no strawman there, dude.
2) I dont sell my own people from my own country into slavery.
i never said anything about current americans, i was talking about the founding fathers. you see, what you did there is an actual strawman.
3) Im not arguing that fact about Opium....
4) would you stay on topic?
the point was pretty clear, you pedantic fuckwit. just because they found african tribes that were willing to sell out others isn't a reason that the enslaving of the other was in any way legitimate. but that's what you said.

anwering in an analogy isn't straying from the topic. how can you not understand this?
another straw man argument but ill ride with it.
now i am absolutely convinced that you actually have no idea what a strawman argument is.
Yea, Europeans made a Paradise of cities and taxes in the United States, hell across the New World, thats why we revolted, and started a revolution, thats why Europe has nearly no control over any part of the New World anymore.

Everyone just wanted your rich cities. Not like the Europeans were overtaxing the colonies or anything.
what the fuck does taxation of one imperialistic shitstain of a nation upon its colonies have to do with anything?

i'm saying the founding fathers of america were assholes and shouldn't be idolized. i guess i should have said, them and poeple like you should be ignored because they represent the general suck of the human race.

the European nations never created anything in the new world, what they did do was after the Settlers had got everything running real good made good trading deals with the colonies that would exchange manufactured goods for raw goods.

The same thing they did in India, had the indians create Raw Materials, ship it off to England, then ship it back to the indians to buy as a finished good. This was done with all nations.
i'm not saying life as an american settler was easy. so what, life as an ausschwitz prison guard was tough too, so is a life as a scientologist. i don't five a fuck, though, because the way they live fucks other people over. so fuckem!
And im now done with you and this thread, feel free to continue, i think its derailed enough as it is.


The discussion was on California getting its wellfare dropped a (socialist idea)
yeah, shitstain, run the fuck away. or better, come back, and say 'strawman' a couple more times. hey, you could even through in an occasional 'slippery slope' or some other fucking fallacy you read about somewhere.

you'll still always be a racist, patriotic douchebag that i'd like to beat with a shovel.
luckywaldo7
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by luckywaldo7 »

Reading this thread I think we should just pat ourselves on the back and congratulate each other on how far the human race has come, because while we might have been complete jerks back then, we now are a civilized, polite, and cultured species with an open mind for difference of opinion. If we think too hard about it we might find the irony in it.
Regret
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Regret »

Journier wrote:we
Patriotism: the pride of a sperm.
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lurker
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by lurker »

Boirunner wrote:
you are such an asshole it hurts. just because one continent was slower to discover technology it means the people there are worth less?
Never said that, stop making a straw man argument.
what? you said:
Oh good one, yea people taking slaves in Africa totally ruined it for future generations in Africa. HA HA HA HA. Africa never had its shit together once, and I dont believe it will as a whole ever and thats with one of the most rich continents on earth.
so if killing and enslaving and abusing people who 'didn't have their shit together' is ok, then those people must be worth less. except if you have a really fucking stupid system of ethics. which i would't put beyond you.
Read it again. He said that the slave trade didn't screw up Africa, that Africa wasn't doing well to begin with. Journier does not suggest they deserved or anything; you read something that wasn't there.


tombom wrote:
Africa never had its shit together once, and I dont believe it will as a whole ever and thats with one of the most rich continents on earth.
Most racist thing I've read in a long while.
Africa and the culture therein is a race?
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Boirunner
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Boirunner »

luckywaldo7 wrote:Reading this thread I think we should just pat ourselves on the back and congratulate each other on how far the human race has come, because while we might have been complete jerks back then, we now are a civilized, polite, and cultured species with an open mind for difference of opinion. If we think too hard about it we might find the irony in it.
yes, verbally attacking people who implicitly support slavery and genocide is just as bad as doing those things in the first place! how ironic!
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MidKnight
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by MidKnight »

My view:
THIS SHIT BE SETTLED 40 YEARS AGO; DON'T START IT BACK UP.
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Boirunner
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Re: California dumping welfare?

Post by Boirunner »

lurker wrote: Read it again. He said that the slave trade didn't screw up Africa, that Africa wasn't doing well to begin with. Journier does not suggest they deserved or anything; you read something that wasn't there.
no, i read it just fine. my point was, africas future was destroyed by imperialism. he replied that africa wasn't a very nice place in the first place, so who cares if imperialism fucked them up. to that i correctly replied that not being technologically advanced does not make you fucked up, and even less makes you deserving of being enslaved and set against one another by a technologically superior foe.

if you are advanced, you can take over any place with relatively meager effort. by definition, your enemy will not be as far advanced as you. using that as an argument to claim their enslavement is less tragic is simply horrible, and you know it.
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