Lesner Vs Couture predictions

[SwiftSpear]

Any opinions?

I say Couture is going down. I think the UFC world has been underestimating Brock, IMO he's got alot more cards in his hand then he's played so far, and it's just a matter of laying them down on the table. Brock's weak point is leg submissions, I don't think he's ironed his game out to the point where a brilliant BJJ practitioner can't take advantage of his lack of experience yet... We have yet to see if he can take a hit, but he's a big guy and we know he can handle pain... so IMO I don't think that's going to be a huge factor. The fact is though, Randy isn't strong with leg submissions, and while he's a decent striker, he's not the kind of striker that can dominate Brock, the man having so much more athleticism, youth, and reach than Randy has, and we know that if Brock doesn't like the striking game he'll just take it to the ground.

I really don't think there's a heavy weight in UFC that can stay on his feet in a fight against Lesner right now. And I don't think there's a heavyweight in UFC that can manipulate Lesner on the ground. There are definitely guys who can worm a submission victory out against Brock, or just hold up too much in the standup to let Brock dominate, but Randy isn't one of those guys.

Should be a rockin party anyways.

[BigSteve]

I cant wait for this fight, I hope Randy wins I think it's going to be tough for him, VERY tough but Brocks only got 2 fights in the UFC, 3 in MMA and the lack of XP may be his downfall if he can't take randy out quickly and starts to get pressured and dragged into later rounds.

I think randy's gonna take him out in the 2nd or 3rd round, Probably by ground pound, Lesnar giving his back up and Randy sinking in a choke.
Thats my prediction, but it could just as easily go the otherway too, with brocks unbelievable strength and size XXXL hands, thats whats so great about this matchup!

We've reserved our table at the local pub in deep cove already hehe :)

[rattle]

with brocks unbelievable strength and size XXXL hands, thats whats so great about this matchup!

Seriously, he's going to break Orton in two pieces.

[SwiftSpear]

http://mma-core.com/videos/VideoStream.aspx or TVU 61886 at 7PM PST.

Should be a party.

[Dragon45]

wont get a chance to watch this live. so please please don't post the outcome here.

[SwiftSpear]

wont get a chance to watch this live. so please please don't post the outcome here.

Post when you've watched it. I want to recap this deal like nuts.

[BigSteve]

Oh man I was wrong sooooo wrong. Waaaa!
Fedor would still tool Lensar like a little girl though, dont mess with the ruskies!

[smoth]

the only people I hear talking about MMA in the states are redneck white trash, is this the same thing?

[BigSteve]

Shut your mouth smoth you daft twat, of course its the same same thing, so dont pretend you dont know otherwise, stop trolling and go make a patch for gundam or something k ?

[SwiftSpear]

the only people I hear talking about MMA in the states are redneck white trash, is this the same thing?

It's a sport, globally renowned with a fan base larger than boxing, and arguably larger than pro wrestling. I'm sure there's alot of redneck MMA fans, but you're off of it if you think the sport isn't huge in other communities as well.

[smoth]

Wow rage much steve? Lots of people here do not like soccer and lots of people there do not like American football. So what. Nice call there, You were complete off but you succeeded in pissing me off so I'll give a hateful reply and get marked as the aggressor as always. all I asked was a damn question.

Honestly swift, I didn't hear much about it, none of the groups that I frequented cared about it. I only recently started hearing about MMA and it has only been from less than educated rednecks who call themselves pitfighters. So that really is the people that I have seen talking about it. Most of the people I know are busy raging over biden, palin, talking about stuff not related to sports. I think I come the closest because I like playing airsoft but come on, that is a GAME. oh and at least 2 times a week we talk about real guns.

I don't know, I am allowed to not care about dudes beating each other and shit. But hey all I asked was a fucking question because in two states I do not know any non trash educated people were into it. so sorry to insult the sensitive and intelligent deep individuals who like to watch what I can only assume is the soulful embrace of two men.

[BigSteve]

You were insinuating that everyone who watches mma must be barbaric rednecks, you know it, I know it, so does everyone else, so stop trying to pretend you were asking an innocent question.
Go take your sissy ramblings elsewhere smoth, nobody cares.

[AF]

You were insinuating that everyone who watches mma must be barbaric rednecks, you know it

My sense of dignity is restored

[smoth]

You were insinuating that everyone who watches mma must be barbaric rednecks, you know it, I know it, so does everyone else, so stop trying to pretend you were asking an innocent question.
Go take your sissy ramblings elsewhere smoth, nobody cares.

It is, I don't know. I have seen only rednecks talk about it. No one in my office does, and we have a lot of very different people here with different conversations. However, I was turned off to MMA because the only ones talking about it were the redneck wannabe hard asses. One of them had their kid learning mma so he could "rule" the school he went to... aka bully the other kids.

So forgive me since that is all I have seen. In college, no one cared about mma some of them liked ufc and they were the scruffy guys who seldom came to class and failed out of school shortly afterwards. So I don't know. As far as I know mma and ufc are the same. never watched either one. Martial arts tournaments are always bunk with bullshit rules and that fucking stupid point system(but it is a sport) so based on the people I have met who talked about it and what i have seen of the sports martial arts world(KIIIIIIIIIIIIYA!) I didn't think I would be into this.

I have seen a few soccer matches and played for a year (I wasn't very good) I played basketball for 3 and was damn good at stealing the ball and getting it down court, along with 4 years of martial arts. I still hate sports but that doesn't mean I am not interested in watching them but the only one I will watch is real wrestling esp college, those guys do some amazing shit. So don't think I am against all sports but I want to watch something that I will not find myself sitting next to jimbobjethro spilling beer on me which happens at American football games.

[Dragon45]

saw the fight last night!

it was great one.. i really think they should split up the heavyweight class into heavyweight and super heavyweight imho; just no way guys like Randy can compete against the high-end guys fairly.

that being said, FUCKING SWEET, lesnar landed way more good jabs and right crosses than i was expecting, and the few grapplign/clinching moments were classic... brilliant use of the clinch by both sides.

i have to admit, since it was a fight between two wrestlers, i was hoping that someone would get suplexed or something, but it was still a great fight...

[KaiserJ]

smoth :

IMO, mma has a lot of depth as far as sports go, but can also be taken at face value... meaning, there are a lot of people who like the sport just because people get the crap kicked out of them in a wire cage... but there is a lot of depth of technique and skill demonstrated that can interest and catch the eye of an experienced viewer rather than just someone with a lust for blood.

UFC started with the points system you're talking about (similar to karate or taekwondo matches or olympic boxing) and fighters would have to fight multiple fights in an evening to reach the end of an elimination system. at that point, the consensus was that it was pretty much about "who can hit the hardest, who can get it done quickly and efficiently and still have gas in the tank for another fight an hour later." however, these earlier fights were dominated more by "technique" fighters, guys like royce gracie who fought defensively and would use the other fighters weaknesses and mistakes against them rather than just by being the stronger, tougher guy (defenitely open for debate, just my opinion.) now we're onto a boxing type system, where fighters have an overall rank and will only fight once per event.

for me, i'm more of a fan of "gentleman fighters" who have respect for their opponent and dedication to their training and technique... more like a true martial artist IMO (royce gracie, george st. pierre spring to mind for me, im sure other fans would have more to add to the list) than guys who talk a lot of smack and go out to try and punish their opponents without much concern for their own safety (tito ortiz, ken shamrock spring to mind)

about the beer swillers, it's the same with every sport. MMA / UFC is very popular right now thanks to spikeTV (is it called that in the states?) showing that ultimate fighter show... but how many of the fans actually have an appreciation for what goes on in the ring beyond people getting bashed in the face? not a hell of a lot... but still, the depth, complication and beauty of the sport really is there for people who look... and you're probably head and shoulders above them in that respect if you've taken martial arts yourself. give it a try.

[Panda]

IMO, mma has a lot of depth as far as sports go, but can also be taken at face value... meaning, there are a lot of people who like the sport just because people get the crap kicked out of them in a wire cage... but there is a lot of depth of technique and skill demonstrated that can interest and catch the eye of an experienced viewer rather than just someone with a lust for blood.

I'm into, yoga, swimming, jogging, acrobatics, and martial arts, so I like a lot of athletic things too. Because of this, I've met a lot of very experienced martial artists (a Tae Chi Master, a Tai Kwon Do master, capoeira fighters) and none of them are interested in mma.

Mma certainly doesn't look like something that someone who is more into the art side of martial arts would be into and does look like something that someone who is pretty much interested in seeing people getting the tar beat would like.

Another name for Tai Chi is "meditation in motion". It's core principles involve learning to focus, integrate the mind and body, and on gaining an understanding of how to maintain balance and harmony in your life, thus, the art side of the martial art. I've also noticed that people who practice martial arts and look at it as though it's more of an art than not seem to have more lovely (this isn't always true) and scary ways of fighting. Therefore, to me, mma is no where near as impressive as watching one of these people practice something like a high level Tai Chi practitioner spar while using a sword technique and certainly doesn't look like it has a lot of depth to it.

See Sword Dance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xCkMrD3 ... re=related

[KaiserJ]

i can understand where you're coming from panda... martial arts are by nature a means of self defense, not a method of being aggressive... and in no way is MMA competition a measure of who is really the best martial artist in the world.

that sword video was pretty amazing, and i've seen other ones like it, as well as having seen martial arts skills competitions on TV (doing routines, breaking boards, that sort of thing) and UFC / MMA is very far removed from things like that.

i did take taekwondo when i was young, but i didn't really retain as much from it as i would have liked; the closest analogy i can think of is something im more familiar with, skateboarding. there are all sorts of competitions where people can go and test their skills against others with judges to decide who is victorious like the Xgames and other events of the type... but by far the most amazing things are done in a non-competitive environment where the primary guiding point is challenging oneself rather than pitting yourself against somebody else.

that been said, i still feel competition, even for an "athletic art form" if you will, is valid. even though it may not be the best representation of the art/sport, it still gives it a certain accessibility to people watching it, as well as an outlet for people who feel that they DO need to measure themselves against somebody else.

maybe you can set me straight on this as you seem knowledgeable... i've always assumed that competitive martial arts competitions started with wushu, and that those competitions involved sparring with others as well as individual demonstrations of technique. i suppose if that's true, then we're only really getting a watered down version of what a historical martial arts competition might be like, which personally i think is a shame, but probably happened because most UFC fans wouldn't have the patience or interest to watch a technique competition.

i figure my own interest in MMA comes from watching 70s and 80s movies about martial arts... enter the dragon, best of the best, kickboxer, bloodsport... a far cry from actually learning the martial arts themselves

[SwiftSpear]

MMA is a competitive sport. It definitely has alot of depth to it, there is a massive amount of strategy, tactics, and skill that goes into the format. I wouldn't call what MMA practitioners do "martial arts". Although strictly speaking, and combat training is a "martial art" it certainly isn't the same activity in any way shape or form as Tae Chi, Tai Kwon Do, or Capoeira. Not meaning to rag on those art forms, but they have performed mostly quite poorly in mixed competitions, which could be part of the story regarding why practitioners of those arts don't have much interest. If they were highly interested in competitive sport fighting they would likely be practicing mauy thai or Brazillian Jui Jietsu.

Fundamentally though, many martial arts are less about turning yourself into the ultimate killing machine, and more about living a healthy lifestyle and focusing your energy positively. And even then, MMA is more sport than combat, they have tonnes of rules designed to protect fighters, but if you strictly wanted to hurt people, breaking those rules would probably be generally to your advantage.

MMA is a combat sport designed to be dynamic and compelling. And in that, it succeeds.

[smoth]

Panda gets weird about martial arts she was actually taught under a fairly strict grandmaster who likes being some unknown with a small dojo. very nice man, I have met him once but I would never fuck with him. So I'd probably say she is more into the very formal old styles but she always progresses quickly in whatever school she takes and stays very focused and calm while sparing. Flexible and controlled etc, she just isn't strong.

One of my co-workers told me swift mma is more of a heterogeneous mix of bits and pieces here and there. sounds a lot like how the older styles got started. I am not really sure if I would want to watch users of this. Did my co-worker explain the subject correctly?

KaiserJ I think I saw ufc, there was a "shamrock guy," he was supposed to be good KaiserJ they were in some kind of cage and he was trying to put the other guy in holds to use pressure points to make the other guy submit and I lost interest quickly. Wasn't very exciting. So that MAY have been ufc, I thought it was wwf or something and just went back to drawing for the night's vampire game.