Another new computer thread, final check-up with the experts

[Dash_Riprock]

Im basically making the usual gaming PC with the best performance for the lowest price, with an emphasis on future upgrade-ability.

Case: COOLER MASTER Elite 330 RC-330-KKN1-GP Black SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Power supply:
OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS 600W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply 100 - 240 V CB, CE, CSA, UL, FCC - Retail
Mobo:
ASUS P5K PRO LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Processor:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
Memory:
OCZ Platinum Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
Video Card:
Open Box: MSI NX8800GT 512M OC GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card
HDD:
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250310AS 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Case fans:
XIGMATEK XSF-F1251 120mm Case Fan - Retail

Total cost (including shipping and rebates): $730
Any recommendations, better deals than newegg, ect?

[SwiftSpear]

The RAM timings are pretty low... From my experience you can usually find setup with better timings for about $20 above the low end price for a set. For strict graphics rendering it won't make much of a difference, but better RAM timings will make real time procedural calculation run faster, so for alot of games it can somewhat decrease load time and improve FPS.

[Dash_Riprock]

5-5-5-15 is the best available for DDR2 1000+. I could go with 4-4-4-12 at DDR2 800 for about the same price, but it didn't seem worth it.

[det]

Get a E8400 instead of a E6850, it can probably overclock better and uses less power (lower power bill), generates less heat. It is built on 45nm instead of 65nm. It should be a a little bit faster at stock as well. It also includes some new instructions, like SSE4, I think.

Get a P45 Based motherboard, it is about the same price as P35 and uses newer technology, 65nm instead of 90nm, which uses less power, generates less heat. It might also be a better overclocker.

NVidia is going to release new video cards in less than a week. They will probably be outside your price range, but this will drive down the prices of 8800gt. AMD is going to release new video cards in about a week. These may actually be in your price range and will probably be a better deal than the 8800gt.

Use Scythe slipstream case fans. They are proven quiet and can move decent air. It's worth a couple more bucks.

You might wanna think about getting an aftermarket heatsink if you want silence or overclocking. XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 is the best deal on the market today.

The OCZ power supply is also a little bit loud. I'd reccomend a lower wattage corsair in it's place. (550W VX line is close in price).

The G.Skill DDR2 1000 is also a better deal than the OCZ memory. Cheaper and has better reviews for the same specs.

[Dash_Riprock]

Im not really too concerned about noise since my comp is right next to the AC/heater unit anyway. As far as the processor, I was going to get the E8400, but then I noticed the E6850 was a tiny bit cheaper and regularly beat the E8400 slightly in almost all the benchmarks I could find.

I will check out that mobo chipset though, and its definitely good to know those new cards are coming out soon. You were definitely right about the g.skill RAM.

Also, I am planning to get an SLI setup sometime in the far future when I need an upgrade, and I want to be sure my PSU can handle it.

EDIT:
I just looked at the prices on the P45 boards, and it looks like they will cost me an extra $50 or so. Would be nice maybe, but not priority for my budget.

[[Krogoth86]]

Also, I am planning to get an SLI setup sometime in the far future when I need an upgrade, and I want to be sure my PSU can handle it.

SLI just as CF sucks for upgrading...
It also is fail because of micro stuttering and except for rumors about ATIs new X2 card there won't be a solution anytime soon...

[det]

The motherboard you selected can't handle SLI anyways, only NVidia motherboards can. SLI is _not_ for upgrading anyways. You're better off getting a new card when the time comes. And you can definately get a P45/P43 motherboard for ~$100 if you don't need crossfire or motherboard raid.

[SwiftSpear]

5-5-5-15 is the best available for DDR2 1000+. I could go with 4-4-4-12 at DDR2 800 for about the same price, but it didn't seem worth it.

Ya, you're right, I didn't notice they were OC DDR2.

[DemO]

Got my memory (2GB Crucial Ballistix) running at 1134MHz (default DDR2 1066 iirc) at 4-4-4-12 timings easily. As long as you're willing to overvolt the memory very slightly. I had to do that anyway to get my Q6600 stable @ 3.4GHz (lower or higher FSB:DRAM wouldnt let me do it so I had to clock up memory to run stable at 1134).

Been running fine like that for almost a year now, no instability issues or broken hardware. Basically the point is that its easy to reduce timings on decent memory if you are willing to mess about in BIOS and set memory voltage slightly over stock. Beware though, setting memory timings too low can make your PC stop posting, then unless you have a decent motherboard (thankfully I do) it can be a hassle to fix.

Also check your bios and stock memory voltage to check that they are the same. Performance memory from manufacturers like OCZ tend to run at a higher stock voltage than normal memory, and many motherboards will not notice this, leaving the memory voltage in BIOS considerably less than it should be, which can cause huge instability issues and drop in performance.

I had some trouble with this when I built my rig, as my BIOS had set default voltage at 1.8V when Crucual Ballistix runs at 2.2V stock. It was so unstable that I was unable to navigate through the bios and up the voltage before my PC would hang. Eventually, after many attempts, I managed to memorise the exact key combination to navigate through 3 bios menu's, choose the memory voltage, change it then F10 save and exit within the 2-3 seconds the PC was stable after loading BIOS.

[Caydr]

RAM timings are absolutely meaningless and anyone who says otherwise is misinformed or else not me. With the money you spend buying "PREMIUM!" and "VISTA COMPATIBLE!" and "SLI-READY!" and "THX-APPROVED!" RAM, you could just buy more ram at a higher speed rating.

I mean you might spend 30% to get a 1% speed boost from slightly lower timings, or you could spend 30% more and get a 50% speed boost from going from PC2-4200 to PC2-6400. Likewise, buying 1 gig of GIGADELUXELULZ brand ram is a dumb idea compared to buying 2 gigs of "budget, but in fact using identical memory chips" ram.

If I'm not so busy, maybe later or this weekend I'll post my opinion on what you've got picked out. I've gotta get back to work now...

[Dash_Riprock]

OK, after taking your advice into consideration, Ive changed my RAM to the G.Skill (which is about the cheapest DDR2 1000+ 2GB sticks that I could find, no need to go on a rant ), my mobo to this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128347
and I did decide to go with the 8400. Also, the 8800gt price went down $30, so all things considered the new price is about $700.

[PauloMorfeo]

I might as well give you some advice too. I highly recomend that you choose a HDD (any, basically) that has 16MB of cache instead of the HDD you chose that only has 8MB of cache.

Of course, one of those HDD with 32MB of cache would be even better but they tend to be quite more costly. Of course a SATA of 10k RPM or a SCSI disk of 15k RPM would be *even* better.

HDDs are, actually, the greatest bottlenecks of today's computers. Games tend to compensate by using them as less as possible but, as you know, they still don't leave the condition of greatest bottlenecks of today. For example, see how CPUs and GPUs have evolved the last 5~10 years in terms of speed and computational power. Now compare them to the HDDs that still are at ~9ms of access time and still at 7200RPM. The HDDs have only been evolving in space, but are quite stuck in speed.

Cache in the HDD helps alot with everything disk related except handling really big files.

[Dash_Riprock]

Ok. I really didnt think the cache size would affect performance significantly, but since its only $5 more I might as well get it.

[Caydr]

Wanted to point out that the price on that video card is actually not good.

link

And it's unopened, as well as coming from a better brand (BFG rules all).

edit: ehh... actually now that I read your post I have to say, you need to comparison shop more aggressively. Newegg is good and all, but you can get better prices if you look. For instance look at this CPU:

http://www.a-power.com/product-5078-WeeklySpecial

It's a better chip, and it costs only $5 more. It's got 2mb more on-die cache which will make a surprising difference. I think it's also got a faster FSB so you can overclock more easily as well as use faster RAM. I found that in less than 15 seconds. If I had 30 minutes to spare (I don't) I'd price out all the stuff in your list probably at 33% less or else 33% better performance, same price.

Alternatively you might try this cpu:

link

It's $15 more than yours and it has two more cores as well as double the on-die cache. It will effortlessly overclock to 3ghz - it's the same as my cpu just with two more cores, and mine runs at 3ghz. This line of processors isn't limited by heat very much, they can run much hotter than they do at stock and still be completely safe.

As for your hard drive, good choice in brand, they are very reliable. But as I'm guessing your chosen mobo has RAID capability (from asus they all do nowadays), I'd strongly recommend setting up a raid array. It's easy to do and even if you just buy a second drive you are now safe from sudden drive failure... it happens. Or you can use a different type of RAID and get much faster reads/writes, but at the cost of security.

If you want a better deal, here's one:

http://www.pcvonline.com/productDetails.aspx?id=6507

Double the storage space, and it's less than $20 more. Or you could try this one:

http://www.tddirect.ca/products/113452/ ... 3320620AS/

And get both more storage and lower price.

SHOP AROUND. I've been typing this for only about 6 minutes now.

I have no comment on your motherboard choice, I only research those when I'm buying a computer. Stay away from nForce chipsets for a while though, their last few models have been crappy. Hmm... on further reading your mobo has only crossfire capability, not SLi, not sure if that's a consideration for you. It wouldn't be for me, SLi is for tards. You do seem to have the best price I can find on it, and Asus has long been the only brand that's worth buying from if you want a decent motherboard.

Edit 2: Read your most recent post. A $99 motherboard is not something I would do... there are some things in a computer it is just not worth it to skimp on. The motherboard is definitely the #1 thing. I paid too much for mine when I got it (P5B-E) but I'm glad I got it regardless, it's an excellent board.

[Dash_Riprock]

Alright, thanks a lot for all your inputs. Im only using about 80 gigs if HD space right now so Im not too concerned about that... also, I know its generally not a good idea to skimp on the mobo. I was actually going to get a more expensive one when I found this, which has literally identical circuitry, but lacks a few superfluous features I couldnt care less about.

In other news, I think Im going to get the 4850 - the futureproofing is worth the extra $80, though I would really prefer a dual-slot cooler.

Any last comments/suggestions?

BTW, Im upgrading from an old dell with 512MB of pc2100 RAM, and a 9700 pro that artifacts like it's its job. I think Im going to be quite pleased with the difference. :)

[Elkvis]

Also, I am planning to get an SLI setup sometime in the far future when I need an upgrade, and I want to be sure my PSU can handle it.

SLI just as CF sucks for upgrading...
It also is fail because of micro stuttering and except for rumors about ATIs new X2 card there won't be a solution anytime soon...

studdering is fixed in the 4*** series. I have read in a review.
Also, CF shits all over crossfire. especially for upgrading.

I would be buying a 4850 now, and then cross firing it with a high end 4*** series later on. perhaps the 4870x2.

[imbaczek]

you want MANY more watts in your PSU if you plan to CF/SLI. 600W doesn't sound like it'll cut it. read some recent reviews of ATI 4xxx, AnandTech had to put in 1200W (!) to keep the system stable.

and yes, ATI 4xxx-series look like win, GF8800 is a no-contest (which may be fast enough TBH.)

ps. http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200805.ars

[Caydr]

One last thing, whatever that case is... make sure it doesn't rattle or anything. Mine vibrates ever so slightly because it's made of aluminum and plastic ("SUPER LIGHT!!!" goes the advertising) IN reality the fancy design just means that now I've got to put about 50 lbs worth of barbells on top of it to keep enough weight on the side and front that it won't rattle.

I'm psychotic, nevermind.

[det]

I built a system yesterday from newegg. A few of things that may interest you:

Combo deals:
ASUS P5Q Pro P45 ($150) + Saphire HD4850 ($200) + Combo Deal ($-50) = $300
Antec P182 Case ($130) + Intel E8400 ($190) + Combo Deal ($-50) = $270

Just good deals:
Antec EA650 650W $70
Antec Trio Power 550 $60

Oh, and I would recommend either a 320GB or 640GB Western Digital hard drive over the seagate you picked. They are 320GB per platter and quieter and perform better.

Some of all of these deals might not exist tomorrow.

Edit: It seems the Asus + Saphire combo is only $-30 now.

[Dash_Riprock]

Just ordered it. Final cost including shipping: $800. Thanks to all for the help.

I also did go with that Antec 650w psu, thanks for that suggestion. My entire order is now rebate-free.