do you belive in global wariming?
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do you belive in global wariming?
i dont now what to belive anymore. first i thought global warming existed but then my dad says it doesnt and now your all talking about. confusing... what do you think?
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
It exists. There are two senses to the word "global warming", both of which are true. The real argument is in what percentage.
1. Simply put, the world is on a natural upwards warming trend right now. It will soon reach pretty close to record temperatures in comparison to global history since our atmosphere has reached stability. It may never actually get to record temperatures, we don't really know yet, because it's virtually impossible to predict how much the sun will warm the earth from one year to the next.
2. There has been detected a certain amount of warming of the globe that can not be explained via any of our current prediction methods. Basically, you can track the warming and cooling of the globe for billions of years based on sun spots. The more sunspots the hotter the earth is. Recently it was discovered that effective within the last 40-50 years, the average temperature has climbed significantly outside of what it should have graphing the temperature of the earth against the amount of sun activity. The unavoidable conclusion is that there has indeed been some man made global warming. For billions of years there hasn't been significant warming deviances (more or less than 1 degree) from what the sun activity showed us we should be able to expect. All of a sudden the average temperature is 2 degrees hotter than it should be based on predictions.
However... to put things in perspective. Global warming does definitely have potential to cause catastrophic problems for us, but the actual percentage of that warming that we can track to man made warming... is virtually irrelevant in comparison to the sun caused warming. It's still an incredibly in debate issue... but there's alot of scientists who also think, based on that understanding, that there's probably not alot we can do to reverse the effects of warming either. We may be able to, and we definitely probably should, remove the current man made warming if we possibly can, but it's not entirely clear how plausible that is either. The reality of the situation is, we are going to need to put measures in place to deal with the problems global warming will cause. As I understand it there is almost definitely no magical cure to it, the chances are very small that emmisions reductions and recycling programs will significantly change the face of the global ecology, and so, while those things are still good for other reasons, we need to recognize that this isn't a game of poker, and that's not the winning hand.
Society, is now, and should be, working towards more efficent ways of living. Our lifestyles are expensive to the globe in many ways, so we should be concerned with our footprint. But I honestly don't think that it's worth sacrificing significantly human progress to decrease carbon emissions. In my opinion we're not saving any lives unless we save them now and protect them now. Counting our carbon pennies is not the solution to the prevention of global disaster.
1. Simply put, the world is on a natural upwards warming trend right now. It will soon reach pretty close to record temperatures in comparison to global history since our atmosphere has reached stability. It may never actually get to record temperatures, we don't really know yet, because it's virtually impossible to predict how much the sun will warm the earth from one year to the next.
2. There has been detected a certain amount of warming of the globe that can not be explained via any of our current prediction methods. Basically, you can track the warming and cooling of the globe for billions of years based on sun spots. The more sunspots the hotter the earth is. Recently it was discovered that effective within the last 40-50 years, the average temperature has climbed significantly outside of what it should have graphing the temperature of the earth against the amount of sun activity. The unavoidable conclusion is that there has indeed been some man made global warming. For billions of years there hasn't been significant warming deviances (more or less than 1 degree) from what the sun activity showed us we should be able to expect. All of a sudden the average temperature is 2 degrees hotter than it should be based on predictions.
However... to put things in perspective. Global warming does definitely have potential to cause catastrophic problems for us, but the actual percentage of that warming that we can track to man made warming... is virtually irrelevant in comparison to the sun caused warming. It's still an incredibly in debate issue... but there's alot of scientists who also think, based on that understanding, that there's probably not alot we can do to reverse the effects of warming either. We may be able to, and we definitely probably should, remove the current man made warming if we possibly can, but it's not entirely clear how plausible that is either. The reality of the situation is, we are going to need to put measures in place to deal with the problems global warming will cause. As I understand it there is almost definitely no magical cure to it, the chances are very small that emmisions reductions and recycling programs will significantly change the face of the global ecology, and so, while those things are still good for other reasons, we need to recognize that this isn't a game of poker, and that's not the winning hand.
Society, is now, and should be, working towards more efficent ways of living. Our lifestyles are expensive to the globe in many ways, so we should be concerned with our footprint. But I honestly don't think that it's worth sacrificing significantly human progress to decrease carbon emissions. In my opinion we're not saving any lives unless we save them now and protect them now. Counting our carbon pennies is not the solution to the prevention of global disaster.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
I've said it before and I've said it again: I believe that global warming is a complex scientific issue and can only be intelligently discussed by those with a solid, professional background in climatology. I have seen zero - and I mean, ZERO - meaningful discussion of global warming in the mass media and from the vast majority of the public.
That said, I also believe that it is better to prepare for an improbable but catastrophic contingency than it is to claim that such a contingency is impossible.
I finally believe that basing one's views on a scientific matter on one's political philosophy is bordering idiocy.
That said, I also believe that it is better to prepare for an improbable but catastrophic contingency than it is to claim that such a contingency is impossible.
I finally believe that basing one's views on a scientific matter on one's political philosophy is bordering idiocy.
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
The oil companies are doing their best to make it look like Climate Change* is a fringe theory or a worldwide conspiracy to destroy the US economy (yes I've seen idiots claim that), just like the creationists try to make Evolution like some hotly contested hypothesis. Both are fairly widely reported, tested and verified theories, there's hundreds or thousands of people working on it and if there was something trivial (popular claim "they're forgetting sun activity!") you can be pretty damn sure it would have been found already. This isn't the dark ages where we had a powerful organization with a license to kill suppressing all views it did not agree with, if a theory is found invalid it won't hold out for long. Hell, even if we did have such a major organization in power (I don't think we have, there's a crapload of large orgs but none powerful enough to control everything) you can be pretty damn sure it's not advocating Climate Change since CC does not benefit any of the existing powers.
*=It's the correct term, the Earth does not warm everywhere and might even have local coolings (which idiots love to cite as "evidence" that the GW theory is false), only the average temperature goes up.
*=It's the correct term, the Earth does not warm everywhere and might even have local coolings (which idiots love to cite as "evidence" that the GW theory is false), only the average temperature goes up.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
The scientists aren't forgetting sun activity. The public and politicians are. Virtually none of the evidences and conclusions actually being presented by scientists is getting down to the public, or even the high end private sector, without an epic arseload of "OMG WTF!"
Make no mistake KDR, the environmental movement is every bit as fanatic as the oil companies are powerful. This particular topic is ripe with misinformation on both sides.
Like I said, man made global warming does exist. So does natural global warming. Unfortunately, right now we have both. The argument is how much of each is going to cause a real problem for us, and that argument is something that has not been settled in the scientific community.
[edit] http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/shindell_03/
Make no mistake KDR, the environmental movement is every bit as fanatic as the oil companies are powerful. This particular topic is ripe with misinformation on both sides.
Like I said, man made global warming does exist. So does natural global warming. Unfortunately, right now we have both. The argument is how much of each is going to cause a real problem for us, and that argument is something that has not been settled in the scientific community.
[edit] http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/shindell_03/
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
thanks alot! keep discussing the topic!
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
Do I do what, also what's global wariming?
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
Rattle, how can you be so mean, ignoring what he obviously ment! Has nobody here every played MDK? Well there, where those mincrawlers, going over the surface of the earth, mining humanity, therefore warmining - so to make the Question easier to understand for you...
Will there be another Alien Invasion ? And stop derailing the Thread by talking about the weather - true Trolls with Ballz stick to enraging Posts...
Will there be another Alien Invasion ? And stop derailing the Thread by talking about the weather - true Trolls with Ballz stick to enraging Posts...
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
Alright. What does global warming and the holocaust have in common? Anyone?
THEY DON'T EXIST! LOL!
On topic:
I always wanted to know what baby seals and polar bears taste like...
THEY DON'T EXIST! LOL!
On topic:
I always wanted to know what baby seals and polar bears taste like...
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
Off course the holocaust doesnt exists, if it existed, we wouldnt be discussing this... :)
I think that whenever man is interfering on climate or not doesnt really matters, because if we are we already dammed the worlds climate for centuries to come, and stopping now would only create a lot of problem and havoc all over the world. at the rate technology is evolving I believe that in a few centuries we will have tech to fix this whole mess and thus stopping poluiting now would be unecessary. Off course thats just a lot of supositions that I will never discover if are right or not since im gonna die before then :)
I think that whenever man is interfering on climate or not doesnt really matters, because if we are we already dammed the worlds climate for centuries to come, and stopping now would only create a lot of problem and havoc all over the world. at the rate technology is evolving I believe that in a few centuries we will have tech to fix this whole mess and thus stopping poluiting now would be unecessary. Off course thats just a lot of supositions that I will never discover if are right or not since im gonna die before then :)
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
manored wrote:Off course the holocaust doesnt exists
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
Enterprise has lots of tinternets
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
Was he talking about some past holocaust? I tough he was talking about the possibility of a future one :)
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Machiosabre
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: 25 Dec 2005, 22:56
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
sure you were, Ahmadinnejirijarabihad.
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
Sorry, for non-Troll disturbing News, some of my (old) family members were unpretty highrank nazis - and nobody of them ever denied that there was a holocaust. They always came around with nice little liestorys, how they - working against the machine inside & in silence tried to save the poor Prisoners, and so on. Nice Fairytells little Monster...
Those who were still fanatical (&most of them young) tried to make up american warprisons into KZs in there minds.
That is the part i really hate them for, robbing whole europe from food, bringing others close to starvdeath - all that just to have a good life and long war, and once those crybabys were reduced to normal european ration standards (most of them even treated better, because they were needed for upcoming cold war) all of the sudden they (in there minds) are the victims.
Hell, in Russia, the starving civilians begged for Bread from the Warprisoners...()
Stil i can imagine that it must be very comfortable to just say there never was anything. Sad, ugly Subject, wish i could get rid of that myself.. back to the warming, let´s face it, we have nobody able to gover humanity (thx to the nuke) - therefore any messures discussed are completely unrelevant. Nobody will stop thos Indians, Chinese and Africans from a try on the same lifestandard we in the west have.
So there is only sollution through progress, advancing faster, so they wont use Oil to power there cars, nor coal to power there tv & PC.
There is were Japan comes into the Game: Beeing on a Island, this Country always had to import most of its materials, which made them quite expensive, forcing onto them a livingstandard we are going to. Goods are very much looked for Quality & Sustainability, they (although because of the Island/Oasis-condition quite conservativ) are open minded for HiTech, which opens another little window to escape. By spending time Gamign, sitting in Front of your PC, you do something to save the enviroment..
You are not using transport, nor streets, you are buying more virtual goods - assembling other virtual goods. So if the power Problem gets solved (Here is a German article over a US-Solarplan sorry for not finding it in englishhttp://www.wissenschaft-online.de/artikel/942651) somehow, and tech keeps getitng better, we will get through the carbondioxid mess, with just a scratch or two...
Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_satellite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_powe ... ted_States
I actually don´t count on fusion to appear - i would invest into (just for highhopes) but i don´t think it will make it till we are no longer in great need for it.
Sad thing is, there is actually no venture capital around for such great adventures. Oh, there are fonds, and stocks from companys, who claim they are going for a highrisk investment. But when you take a closer look, they still get rewarded by stockexchange for cutting risks. So nothing moves, because we Shareholders just put our money on savebanks, like surprime_mortage_crisis.
Problem to solve: Why are we, the normal people, like you and me, so riskavoiding with our saving - although we know this might damage our very offspring? And could we overcome that? You can´t change humannature, even not i a by Human changed Nature. So who does it? The shortsighted market - the state - Spring ?
Sorry for the Typos..
Those who were still fanatical (&most of them young) tried to make up american warprisons into KZs in there minds.
That is the part i really hate them for, robbing whole europe from food, bringing others close to starvdeath - all that just to have a good life and long war, and once those crybabys were reduced to normal european ration standards (most of them even treated better, because they were needed for upcoming cold war) all of the sudden they (in there minds) are the victims.Hell, in Russia, the starving civilians begged for Bread from the Warprisoners...()
Stil i can imagine that it must be very comfortable to just say there never was anything. Sad, ugly Subject, wish i could get rid of that myself.. back to the warming, let´s face it, we have nobody able to gover humanity (thx to the nuke) - therefore any messures discussed are completely unrelevant. Nobody will stop thos Indians, Chinese and Africans from a try on the same lifestandard we in the west have.
So there is only sollution through progress, advancing faster, so they wont use Oil to power there cars, nor coal to power there tv & PC.
There is were Japan comes into the Game: Beeing on a Island, this Country always had to import most of its materials, which made them quite expensive, forcing onto them a livingstandard we are going to. Goods are very much looked for Quality & Sustainability, they (although because of the Island/Oasis-condition quite conservativ) are open minded for HiTech, which opens another little window to escape. By spending time Gamign, sitting in Front of your PC, you do something to save the enviroment..
You are not using transport, nor streets, you are buying more virtual goods - assembling other virtual goods. So if the power Problem gets solved (Here is a German article over a US-Solarplan sorry for not finding it in englishhttp://www.wissenschaft-online.de/artikel/942651) somehow, and tech keeps getitng better, we will get through the carbondioxid mess, with just a scratch or two...
Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_satellite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_powe ... ted_States
I actually don´t count on fusion to appear - i would invest into (just for highhopes) but i don´t think it will make it till we are no longer in great need for it.
Sad thing is, there is actually no venture capital around for such great adventures. Oh, there are fonds, and stocks from companys, who claim they are going for a highrisk investment. But when you take a closer look, they still get rewarded by stockexchange for cutting risks. So nothing moves, because we Shareholders just put our money on savebanks, like surprime_mortage_crisis.
Problem to solve: Why are we, the normal people, like you and me, so riskavoiding with our saving - although we know this might damage our very offspring? And could we overcome that? You can´t change humannature, even not i a by Human changed Nature. So who does it? The shortsighted market - the state - Spring ?
Sorry for the Typos..
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
.1 degrees Celsius is not even noticeable, just like if I cleaned my cars engine, I might get 10 more horsepower, and won't notice a difference. 0.1 Celsius is even less noticeable then that...Stupid Graph wrote:0.1 degrees Celsius.
Last edited by rcdraco on 03 Apr 2008, 00:21, edited 1 time in total.
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
You know draco - there are the alps nearby - and they no longer have snow for shure every winter at some skimountains. Seems that such a little moving up the scale can get normal people in so much trouble, that they have to tweak the engine of the tourism industry and go for moutainbiking..
For us Humans such everyday slow changes are invisible, until we return to places we haven´t been for a long time, and then it can hit you like a hammer, how fast the world turns and changes. And a local will say that 0.1 isn´t really noticabel and nothing has ever changed..
I reread that and i am starting to sound like a old man. You shouldn´t drink and write depressed. And not early in the morning, not while your tired.. Bad Picasso - hands off the keyboard for today..
For us Humans such everyday slow changes are invisible, until we return to places we haven´t been for a long time, and then it can hit you like a hammer, how fast the world turns and changes. And a local will say that 0.1 isn´t really noticabel and nothing has ever changed..
I reread that and i am starting to sound like a old man. You shouldn´t drink and write depressed. And not early in the morning, not while your tired.. Bad Picasso - hands off the keyboard for today..
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Aeon_Illuminate
- Posts: 42
- Joined: 14 Feb 2008, 20:30
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
The best depiction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F78zqxG0BAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F78zqxG0BAY
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Aeon_Illuminate
- Posts: 42
- Joined: 14 Feb 2008, 20:30
Re: do you belive in global wariming?
WTF!![manored] Off course the holocaust doesnt exists, if it existed, we wouldnt be discussing this... :)