Radar jamming

Radar jamming

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Vehementi
Posts: 67
Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 23:27

Radar jamming

Post by Vehementi »

Radar jamming is currently obscenely powerful ;p

Areas that are jammed by enemies need to show up on the LOS map.

And a bug: if you give a radar jammer to enemy, and he gives it back, he still sees its jamming radius on LOS map when you then move it around.
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sparkyhodgo
Posts: 128
Joined: 24 Feb 2005, 19:05

Post by sparkyhodgo »

Dude, you don't KNOW what the enemy has radar jammed. That's the whole point!
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Vehementi
Posts: 67
Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 23:27

Post by Vehementi »

sparkyhodgo wrote:Dude, you don't KNOW what the enemy has radar jammed. That's the whole point!
Except with radar jamming, you know something's up because your radar is mysteriously showing nothing. It doesn't just magically mask your units and not the terrain from radar in some way :P Areas being jammed should show up yellow. It's seriously extremely cheap right now, the shit you can pull off with jamming.
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Archangel of Death
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005, 18:15

Post by Archangel of Death »

Erm... and the problem with it only masking units and not terrain is? Thats how it is in TA. If using a jammer reveals to the enemy that you are using a jammer, there is no point in using jammers. They are to allow you to sneak unoticed, that is there sole purpose. I BIG YELLOW SPOT THAT YOU KNOW MEANS JAMMING ONLY SCREAMS SHOOTME! NOT STEALTH!

ok, I'm done.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Post by zwzsg »

Are you playing XTA or OTA ?

And yes, having areas under enemies jammers colored would defeat 95% of the point.
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Torrasque
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Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 23:55

Post by Torrasque »

Spring fire automaticaly on radar blips. So having them hiden is a way most powerfull than in OTA.

But I don't think the Vehementi idea's is the solution.
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mongus
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Joined: 15 Apr 2005, 18:52

...

Post by mongus »

I guess someone got surprised by unexpected number of enemies...
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Webbie
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005, 20:27

Post by Webbie »

The whole idea of radar jamming is that you don't see what's going on. For example, I loaded a jammer into an air transport, and covertly shuttled bulldogs to the other side of the mountain divide in Small Divide. It's part of what makes TA such a great game - there are so many creative things you can do!

But yes, the line of sight needs to be increased.
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Vehementi
Posts: 67
Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 23:27

Re: ...

Post by Vehementi »

mongus wrote:I guess someone got surprised by unexpected number of enemies...
Actually, it's more like the people I play against quit in frustration because I can kite around their force of any size using radar jamming and they simply are unable to fire at my units with the game mechanics. It is extremely powerful in its current implementation. Don't throw around retarded personal attacks.

I grasp the concept of how radar jamming is used. That's how I use it, obviously.

Given the current game mechanics, the *real* use of radar jamming, in practice, is to give yourself this ridiculous advantage in a battle. Even if it displayed yellow, it wouldn't scream "shoot me" since you *can't* shoot them, unless you uselessly force fire the area.

Come to think of it, I guess making jammed areas yellow isn't going to solve this - it'll just alert to people that you're doing it. But at least it would make it practically counterable, since you know the location of the cloaked force, but can't attack it.

Yes, unit LOS direly needs an increase, and fog of war needs to show up on the standard non-LOS map. A better fix would be to make it so your units don't shoot radar blips (no, it is not inaccurate - the blip moves around, but your unit still fires at the correct position regardless) automatically, and at the very least, make it so that when units fire from out of LOS, a radar blip of their location shows up for a second no matter what (since I can calculate the position of anyone shooting at me with a ballistic weapon with grade 10 physics knowledge, living computers in 30,000 years will be able to as well.)
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Torrasque
Posts: 1022
Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 23:55

Re: ...

Post by Torrasque »

Vehementi wrote: no, it is not inaccurate - the blip moves around, but your unit still fires at the correct position regardless
Arg, I didn't know. Making your units fire at the blips and not at the real position of the ennemi AND increasing the los should solve the problem.

Make moving the blibs but keeping your units fireing at the right position is Useless ihmo.
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NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 19:29

Post by NOiZE »

I wish the blips we're only manual targetable until u get the targeting facility
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08

Re: ...

Post by zwzsg »

Torrasque wrote:
Vehementi wrote: no, it is not inaccurate - the blip moves around, but your unit still fires at the correct position regardless
I don't think so. I saw a bunch of diplomats all fire at exactly the same point, that was just next to an adv radar of mine. Just like if they were targetting my radar, but had been tricked as to its real position.
NOiZE wrote:I wish the blips we're only manual targetable until u get the targeting facility
I'm actually growing to like the actual system. Having to manual target every radar dot just is a waste of micro time in my opinion. I also think that in the first place, the problem is having nearly all units in TA have a longer weapon range than sight range. Long long ago when I played the campaign it just didn't feel good to send shots in the dark and watches wreckages appears in greyed area. I heard that the cavedog people had planned longer sight range but had to brutally limit the values in the /gamedata/los.tdf near the end of TA production because long sight used too much CPU power. Anyway, TA being 8 years old, what were originally bugs and engine limitation are now sacred rules no one can touch without having to endure the wrath of the online muliplayer elite, so changes as big as inverting los and weapon range is not an option. But yes, having a tickeable battleroom box to enable/diseable the auto-radar-targetting feature would be much appreciated.
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Min3mat
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Joined: 17 Nov 2004, 20:19

Post by Min3mat »

let me mak ethis simple- "shut it u muppets" that should suffice :P radar jamming owns u 8) but things like peepers CAN help, although i agree LOS needs to be increased (maybe a 30-50% Increase)
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Redfish
Posts: 289
Joined: 27 Feb 2005, 16:12

Post by Redfish »

Ok, but now it's no longer a matter of who has the best micro management: who can build a base and have his defenders attack the radar at the same time. It's not only a matter of: who builds the most units. Just line up your samsson and if you have more you'll win. Doesn't seem to require the same skills as in ota without radar targetting.
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Min3mat
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Joined: 17 Nov 2004, 20:19

Post by Min3mat »

wait- i know jamming should only affect advanced radai so if u have some 'basic' radar the sophisticated countermeasures will not fool them??? (although this would render LRPC and other stuff useless it would be quite cool)
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Post by AF »

hhmmm, why not decrease radar jamming radi and icnrease LOS radi. Thus radar jamming becomes unwieldy and problematic when hiding large forces, any large force would requrie numerous jamers which would mean mciromanagement or risk holes in the jamming.

Or maybe radar jamers dotn hdie btu instead they further muddle up positions while randomyl showing and hiding units ather thn the true nubmer of units.
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Nemo
Spring 1944 Developer
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 19:44

Post by Nemo »

no, jammers are underused as it is, don't alienate them even more.

a simple increase in los should fix the problem
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Dwarden
Posts: 278
Joined: 25 Feb 2005, 03:21

Post by Dwarden »

What about ability to cumulate effect of jammers and radars ...
2 jammers jam more than one ... two radars detect better than one ...
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Dragon45
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 04:36

Post by Dragon45 »

That just adds another layer of (unnecessary) micromanagement to the whole deal. The curent system is fine.

However, i suspect that there will be some mods that will have the commnader itself function as a radartargetting facility in order to get around this Spring feature.
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CaptainExo
Posts: 57
Joined: 01 May 2005, 03:18

Post by CaptainExo »

Min3mat wrote:wait- i know jamming should only affect advanced radai so if u have some 'basic' radar the sophisticated countermeasures will not fool them??? (although this would render LRPC and other stuff useless it would be quite cool)
Should be the other way around... ie;

Mark 1 Jammer blocks Mark 1 Radar, but Mark 2 Radar can break the effect of the Mark 1 Jammer, etcetera.

Mark 2 Jammer blocks Mark 1 Radar AND Mark 2 Radar, but has a higher energy use and build cost than a Mark 1 Jammer.

Admittedly, it adds unneeded tiers to radar and jamming, but it makes more sense than a state of the art jamming system being useless against some 3rd rate radar system.
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