You have to precisely aim at them from within the weapons range before the missile will track lol, if you are in a hawk and have no direct LOS on your enemy it's nearly impossible to hit something in FP mode.
What i'd also like to see is an improved FP mode while flying, that you basically control the aircraft's motion completely with the mouse keeping the aiming reticule centred at all time, so no weird turret stuff (unless the unit has a turret on it) I know this might be difficult to code.
Spring 0.4b evaluation...
Moderator: Moderators
Well, since a lot of people are complaining about the shadows, I feel I should start out by saying they look awsome. I was actually amazed by how realistic they look. (as in actually following th exact model) And while I'm into the realizm, the trees are very impressive as well, one can actually zoom all the way in on the individual leaves. And the water not moving? Not olny does the water move, but i can actually see a ships wake on the minimap. Quite impressive. My only complaint is that I kept crashing when trying to run 1600x1200 resolution, but then I did have every slider in the settings tab turned to the highest quality setting. 
Quick question, i can't get the gamespeed adjustment thing to work. Is it the same +/- from TA, or should I be useing the number pad +/-? Cause the once next to backspace seemed to do nothing. & This is probably just because of the limited time I had to play with it, but I didn't quite get First Person mode sorted out.
Can't wait to see what mods like TAFF look like on Spring once adapted, the battles should be quite stunning to watch, expesially with the damage scripts. :D
Anyway, great work, keep it up!
Quick question, i can't get the gamespeed adjustment thing to work. Is it the same +/- from TA, or should I be useing the number pad +/-? Cause the once next to backspace seemed to do nothing. & This is probably just because of the limited time I had to play with it, but I didn't quite get First Person mode sorted out.
Can't wait to see what mods like TAFF look like on Spring once adapted, the battles should be quite stunning to watch, expesially with the damage scripts. :D
Anyway, great work, keep it up!
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
I know this is a pretty big ask, considering the FPS mode was only meant to be a minor tack-on to spring, but I'd like to see it made a bit more advanced...
What I mean is:
- have the ability to set weapons to auto target and autofire (as was already suggested)
but also:
- The ability to set some weapons (For example, secondary and tertiary weapons) to autofire, while taking control of others. So I can take control of the GAAT gun on the Warlord, and control the ship, but leave the long range cannons to fire of their own accord, or vice versa.
- The ability to let the unit move of its own accord, either following a predefined patrol route, or just following its preprogrammed responses, while you take control of a weapon. So you can tell your adv. bomber to go on a bombing raid, and jump in the back of it and be the tailgunner.
- If possible, a spotter option similar to the way artillery is used in battlefield 1942. I realise that its a dedicated FPS, and we are talking about an RTS, but this would really make artillery easier to use, especially in instances where you are using very long range artillery like bertha's, and/or in situations where there is terrain blocking your view, but a higher trajectory would easily reach the target.
... What I mean by "spotter mode" is that you are able to target your bertha with the first person HUD up, but from the position of another friendly unit which you are using to spot the target.
- Finally, if it is at all possible, a 3rd person view would be pretty cool too.
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And in a completely unrelated suggestion (please consider seperately from my overly-hopeful previous suggestions):
I think that the "high trajectory" button should be removed, and made completely automatic. Units should switch to the high-trajectory mode either by detecting that the surrounding area will obscure firing BEFORE firing (potentially very CPU unfriendly, but considering its only really artillery units that use this, it shouldn't be too bad), or by detecting that the first shot was obstructed by something, and thus switching to high-trajectory.
What I mean is:
- have the ability to set weapons to auto target and autofire (as was already suggested)
but also:
- The ability to set some weapons (For example, secondary and tertiary weapons) to autofire, while taking control of others. So I can take control of the GAAT gun on the Warlord, and control the ship, but leave the long range cannons to fire of their own accord, or vice versa.
- The ability to let the unit move of its own accord, either following a predefined patrol route, or just following its preprogrammed responses, while you take control of a weapon. So you can tell your adv. bomber to go on a bombing raid, and jump in the back of it and be the tailgunner.
- If possible, a spotter option similar to the way artillery is used in battlefield 1942. I realise that its a dedicated FPS, and we are talking about an RTS, but this would really make artillery easier to use, especially in instances where you are using very long range artillery like bertha's, and/or in situations where there is terrain blocking your view, but a higher trajectory would easily reach the target.
... What I mean by "spotter mode" is that you are able to target your bertha with the first person HUD up, but from the position of another friendly unit which you are using to spot the target.
- Finally, if it is at all possible, a 3rd person view would be pretty cool too.
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And in a completely unrelated suggestion (please consider seperately from my overly-hopeful previous suggestions):
I think that the "high trajectory" button should be removed, and made completely automatic. Units should switch to the high-trajectory mode either by detecting that the surrounding area will obscure firing BEFORE firing (potentially very CPU unfriendly, but considering its only really artillery units that use this, it shouldn't be too bad), or by detecting that the first shot was obstructed by something, and thus switching to high-trajectory.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
The idea was to free up the button space. Its a pretty complicated and obscure requirement for it to require its own button. Its requires extra micromanagement, and can be done fairly easily through an automated process. It said in the readme that they were unsure whether this would stay, so I'm putting my vote in for getting rid of it, so long as the process becomes automatic.
Also, if people are really concerned about where their units are firing, they can just posess that unit, especially with the spotter FPS changes I advocated above.
Also, if people are really concerned about where their units are firing, they can just posess that unit, especially with the spotter FPS changes I advocated above.
Things i've noticed:
1) Behavious of some defense buildings is really bad! A good example is the ARM Annihilator .. YES i know it's not a fast popup laser, but if 1 laser comes out and shoots on enemy tanks and the other laser who i much more near to enemy doesn't open this seems like a weird bug to me.
2) Pathfinds on metal maps flanks are cliffy. But some units always want to drive at this cliffs with incredible slow speed. I wonder if they use clamps for not falling into water :)
1) Behavious of some defense buildings is really bad! A good example is the ARM Annihilator .. YES i know it's not a fast popup laser
, but if 1 laser comes out and shoots on enemy tanks and the other laser who i much more near to enemy doesn't open this seems like a weird bug to me.2) Pathfinds on metal maps flanks are cliffy. But some units always want to drive at this cliffs with incredible slow speed. I wonder if they use clamps for not falling into water :)
The only oddness I've noticed that I haven't seen posted about by other people already is the fact that when I set my construction units on patrol inside my base, they reclaim my own dragon's teeth. I have used construction units on the battlefield for reclaiming holes in DT defences before, so it's okay that they can do this, it's just a pain that they do it automatically. I can't have construction units automatically repairing my defences and cleaning away rubble without eating holes in my DT lines at the same time.
NOiZE wrote:Also Higher trajectory's should hav a smaller range..
Do you have any little clue of really basic ballistics? Considering the speed of projectile is fixed, there's only two angles. And high trajectory means smaller range (unless the weapon range limited by the range tag is much much smaller than the max distance a 45° shot can go). I also noticed that high trajectory shots are much innacurate, and also slower to hit their target, which also compensate for the shooting over wreck.Liam wrote:the trajectory idea is good, but maybe have it low/high/auto instead of removed, like maybe you want to blast the tits out of a mountain :), also maybe a medium setting? the vulcan pretty much creates a meteor shower
Strange, when I played on my CPIA metal map, I noticed that units always avoid the cliff (so they move faster), unless they needed to reach a point they couldn't reach without climbing a cliff, and even then they took care of using as less cliff as possible, and that really impresssed me to see such a good pathfinding.Rayden wrote:2) Pathfinds on metal maps flanks are cliffy. But some units always want to drive at this cliffs with incredible slow speed. I wonder if they use clamps for not falling into water :)
For First Person Mode:
- Add a third person view. (But keep the first person view).
- When you hop in a unit, it should keep on following its move order until you press a move key.
- With middle mouse button, let me toggle the cursor from "turret control" to "RTS interface to select and give orders to other units", so I can keep on controlling units around me whithout going out of FPS. Including giving RTS-style move order to the unit I am inside.
- If possible, when the cursor is in that "RTS control while in FPS" mode, when clicking on each weapon (the names on the left) it changes them from auto-fire to hold-fire and back to manual fire.
Then all that Warlord Zsinj is requesting becomes possible and easy.
Ok, but if you send a bunch of units over a small metal bridge they will drive on the flanks at the point where they enter the bridge. I found too other odd things, i will try to catch them in a screenshot.zwzsg wrote:Strange, when I played on my CPIA metal map, I noticed that units always avoid the cliff (so they move faster), unless they needed to reach a point they couldn't reach without climbing a cliff, and even then they took care of using as less cliff as possible, and that really impresssed me to see such a good pathfinding.Rayden wrote:2) Pathfinds on metal maps flanks are cliffy. But some units always want to drive at this cliffs with incredible slow speed. I wonder if they use clamps for not falling into water :)
But in general i think that units should not be allowed to move on a terrain with a certain acclivity.
Ok, i have done some investigation with screenshots :)
First picture shows aircraft plants which can't produce because another plant is too near. I don't know if this is intended, but i was used to build so in old TA.
The second one shows how planes somehow act when building. Normally they fly around the building, a little bit back a little bit forward and so on. In old TA this was no problem because the beam was never interrupted, but he is interrupted in Spring
First picture shows aircraft plants which can't produce because another plant is too near. I don't know if this is intended, but i was used to build so in old TA.
The second one shows how planes somehow act when building. Normally they fly around the building, a little bit back a little bit forward and so on. In old TA this was no problem because the beam was never interrupted, but he is interrupted in Spring
In TA too units would do that. I find it normal, seeing not all units can drive side by side on the small bridge, the unit behind find the path one blocked by the one in front, and so try to pass by the side. Having your tank being able to understand that the obstacle blocking the way in front is in fact moving at the same speed and so that even at full speed it'll never bump into the obstacle one pixel away is probably nightmarish to code and debug. Maybe the SY, in their greatness, would be able to program that, but it's not worth the cost in time spent coding and the CPU cost such a complex pathfinding algorithm would require IMO.Rayden wrote:Ok, but if you send a bunch of units over a small metal bridge they will drive on the flanks at the point where they enter the bridge. I found too other odd things, i will try to catch them in a screenshot.
But in general i think that units should not be allowed to move on a terrain with a certain acclivity.
Units being able to drive on terrain with any declivity is I believed needed because of terrain deformation. Without it units could get stuck in crater. With it units are slowed down by craters, but can still pass anywhere. But still, it would be better if units weren't able to climb any wall or cliff the map maker put. Maybe make it so they can only climb steep slope if it doesn't exist in the original heightmap?
Oh yes, plane flying away and having their nanobeam interrupted all the time when building is really a bug, and an annoying one. I can't even get an adv plant up without the assistance of some vehicles. (Playing XTA and build adv air with comm is not an acceptable solution.)
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Flozi, I'm not saying that it should be removed, I'm saying that it should be made automatic, instead of button-activated. Therefore, because it exists in game, it would be very easy to make a scripting tag saying alwayshightrajectory=true, forcing a unit to always use high trajectory targetting.
I don't think I understand your final point regarding the RTS view using FPS controls, zw?
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Oh, and as a minor bug report, vehicles (or atleast construction vehicles) will shift to follow the height map of the ground below them even when in air transports, so an atlas flying over a mountain carrying a vehicle will have that vehicle turn upwards as if it were climbing the mountain...
I don't think I understand your final point regarding the RTS view using FPS controls, zw?
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Oh, and as a minor bug report, vehicles (or atleast construction vehicles) will shift to follow the height map of the ground below them even when in air transports, so an atlas flying over a mountain carrying a vehicle will have that vehicle turn upwards as if it were climbing the mountain...
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
- Posts: 1370
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 01:10
Flozi, do realise that a high trajectory from a MBT or other modern tank would looks very silly since they can only move their barrels up to 30~45° on average IIRC.
It wouldn't be bad if there was a FBI command that could be added: Ishightrajectory=1; or something in that sense so Spring knows that that is a unit that can use or is restricted to high trajectory firing processes.
Also I'd like to add that a lock-on mode or auto-tracking mode would be a must, either that, or have controls similar to Wargasm (if anyone knows that), I know that spring already has a limited lock-on function, but auto-tracking WOULD be nice, also, an interesting mode would be strafe firing in KBOTS and even tanks, that wouldn't conflict too much with TA since the turret could just keep pointed at the target while the chassis turns and moves, strafe could be switched on and off as well, that would simplify FP mode greatly, also, i'd like to see realistic aircraft FP mode that looks forward all of the time and when switching weapons to a turreted weapon you would be able to freely turn your mouse to your target while the aircraft either flies or is auto-piloted and made to attack a nearby target, I think the replies to the FP mode has pointed out it should be MUCH more than a gimick, it should be THE defining function of spring that will swamp ALL other competition! :D
Weapon switiching will definitly be a must, esspecially for units with multiple weapons, a mode that will employ all weapons will be nice to have as well, full guns mode like wing commander :)
It wouldn't be bad if there was a FBI command that could be added: Ishightrajectory=1; or something in that sense so Spring knows that that is a unit that can use or is restricted to high trajectory firing processes.
Also I'd like to add that a lock-on mode or auto-tracking mode would be a must, either that, or have controls similar to Wargasm (if anyone knows that), I know that spring already has a limited lock-on function, but auto-tracking WOULD be nice, also, an interesting mode would be strafe firing in KBOTS and even tanks, that wouldn't conflict too much with TA since the turret could just keep pointed at the target while the chassis turns and moves, strafe could be switched on and off as well, that would simplify FP mode greatly, also, i'd like to see realistic aircraft FP mode that looks forward all of the time and when switching weapons to a turreted weapon you would be able to freely turn your mouse to your target while the aircraft either flies or is auto-piloted and made to attack a nearby target, I think the replies to the FP mode has pointed out it should be MUCH more than a gimick, it should be THE defining function of spring that will swamp ALL other competition! :D
Weapon switiching will definitly be a must, esspecially for units with multiple weapons, a mode that will employ all weapons will be nice to have as well, full guns mode like wing commander :)
No I don't think strafing could fit well in Spring. Go ask for strafing in Unreal Annihilation instead.
FLOZi wants mortars mostly for Axis and Allies TA, a WW2 themed TA TC, and in WW2 mortars were used.
What I meant wasn't "RTS view using FPS controls" but "RTS control in FPS view".
Imagine you're in a weasel. You're moving with the arrow key. You see a fusion. Then, you press middle click. You're still in weasel, you're steal steering the mousel wheel, and pressing the weasel gas pedal, but you don't control the weasel turret anymore. Instaed your mouse look like that green <^> cursor of TA. So, while you're moving around in weasel with the arrow key, you press 1 to recall the previously put in group 1 intimidator, and move the mouse over the fusion to change the cursor into the attack cursor, and clikc. That way you have 'spotted' the fusion for the intimidator. Once that is done, you middle click to change the mouse cursor from RTS control to weasel's turret control.
Imagine you're in krogoth about to lead the final assault over the arm base. You happily walk forward, then notices you forgot to tell the rest of the armies to follow you. You so press middle mouse, ctrl W, G, and, uhm, click on yourself (let's say clicking on the lil krogoth picture that appear in the corner when you're in a krogoth). That way you made all armed units follow you.
Imagine you're in a phoenix in group 3. You just hoped into the phoenix after giving a bombing order. You make sure not to touch any arrow key. The phoenix keeps is bombing order path. You then middle click, and the mouse pointer change to RTS. But you're still aboard the phoenix. Then you mouse the mouse over the line that reads. Weapon1:bombs:Manual. You click once, it changes to "auto". Then you middle click. Now you mouve the mouse, and that makes the camera turn (but still placed aboard the phoenix), and the tail turret follow. Since you haven't pressed the arrow key yet, the phoenix keeps on his way toward bombing the enemy base. As he passes over the base and release its bomb, it's you who man the tail turret. Then you notice he's going to do turn over a MT nest. Quickly, you press the arrow key and take direct control over his flight direction. You make it go away in some MT free place, then turn back. Then, as he flies back to the enemy base, you middle click, you then click on the picture on the corner or press 3 to recall the group you're in, and issue a bomb order over some important enemy structure. You stop using the arrow keys at this point. Then you middle click again and use the tail turret again.
I would prefer that to having to exit entirely of FPS mode each time I want to give orders to other units.
FLOZi wants mortars mostly for Axis and Allies TA, a WW2 themed TA TC, and in WW2 mortars were used.
What I meant wasn't "RTS view using FPS controls" but "RTS control in FPS view".
Imagine you're in a weasel. You're moving with the arrow key. You see a fusion. Then, you press middle click. You're still in weasel, you're steal steering the mousel wheel, and pressing the weasel gas pedal, but you don't control the weasel turret anymore. Instaed your mouse look like that green <^> cursor of TA. So, while you're moving around in weasel with the arrow key, you press 1 to recall the previously put in group 1 intimidator, and move the mouse over the fusion to change the cursor into the attack cursor, and clikc. That way you have 'spotted' the fusion for the intimidator. Once that is done, you middle click to change the mouse cursor from RTS control to weasel's turret control.
Imagine you're in krogoth about to lead the final assault over the arm base. You happily walk forward, then notices you forgot to tell the rest of the armies to follow you. You so press middle mouse, ctrl W, G, and, uhm, click on yourself (let's say clicking on the lil krogoth picture that appear in the corner when you're in a krogoth). That way you made all armed units follow you.
Imagine you're in a phoenix in group 3. You just hoped into the phoenix after giving a bombing order. You make sure not to touch any arrow key. The phoenix keeps is bombing order path. You then middle click, and the mouse pointer change to RTS. But you're still aboard the phoenix. Then you mouse the mouse over the line that reads. Weapon1:bombs:Manual. You click once, it changes to "auto". Then you middle click. Now you mouve the mouse, and that makes the camera turn (but still placed aboard the phoenix), and the tail turret follow. Since you haven't pressed the arrow key yet, the phoenix keeps on his way toward bombing the enemy base. As he passes over the base and release its bomb, it's you who man the tail turret. Then you notice he's going to do turn over a MT nest. Quickly, you press the arrow key and take direct control over his flight direction. You make it go away in some MT free place, then turn back. Then, as he flies back to the enemy base, you middle click, you then click on the picture on the corner or press 3 to recall the group you're in, and issue a bomb order over some important enemy structure. You stop using the arrow keys at this point. Then you middle click again and use the tail turret again.
I would prefer that to having to exit entirely of FPS mode each time I want to give orders to other units.