Spring 0.4b evaluation...

Spring 0.4b evaluation...

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Storm
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Spring 0.4b evaluation...

Post by Storm » 27 Apr 2005, 02:54

So... after playing this thing, I have some opinions.

First of all, before certain of you start claim that I'm just nagging on all the hard work, Spring is a really explicit thing. Good looking, nice working and extremely cool, so don't whine that I whine. Now to the point...
  • After using the FPS mode once, the camera drops whatever cool mode it had before where it was actually usable and converts to something so aggravating I felt an urge to set my bed on fire... hope my neigbours won't complain. It's impossible to enjoy the game with the distorted settings that emerge after "c". Every time you press forward or backward you move in the direction you are looking, and have to use backspace every other second to get around anywhere on the map.
  • Just as I presumed, the terrain deformation is brutal to say the least. Going Vehicle Plant is completely pointless, since no vehicles could even dream of passing the rubble created by a flash and six MTs.
  • Where the hell does my energy go? I built solar after solar, but the E spending kept jumping to slightly above my income all the time. This made absolutely no sense. Sometimes, I get a heavy heavy surplus, but most of the time, it's empty and no matter if I just completed a geo, I don't actually gain any resources.
  • Arm con. kbots unfold so slow that the started building vanishes before the poor thing is ready to build. Therefore, one of my bots only managed to build two solars out of eight, not to mention how (dis)efficient the MT engineers were. Especially if they wanted to reclaim a tree before starting (and had to first fold in and then unfold).
  • Why StarCraft clicking? Is it built in? I hate using right button to issue orders and while some like that, TA had a function to switch inbetween to make both happy.
  • I enabled shadows in the settings, yet shadows remain to be seen on my screen.
  • Not really a bug, but someone in this forum claimed that con units level the ground underneath the new buildings. They don't.
  • The invisible line of sight was quite annoying.
  • XTA? I don't want to play XTA. Rockos killing solars in three quick shots simply isn't fun. One rocko in the enemy base is so highly effective that it's not even funny and the Bertha Guardians are... autotargetting? How do we add OTA or custom mods?
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Post by zwzsg » 27 Apr 2005, 03:11

Yes, the right click interface was really painful, and not being able to switch back to TA style scrolling after hitting C was painful too.

Something easy to fix: make selecting the mexx setting metal map on, not switch it on/off. I usually press F4 scouting for emplacment before selecting the mexx, and once I find a metal patch, and get ready to lay the mexx, poof the green stain goes away.

I haven't noticed Storm's problem with terrain deformation. For me terrain deformation was light enought to let veh pass.

However yes, if the con have terraformation ability, it's so small it's almost unoticable. There were many spot I couldn't build on, without clear reason, and all green spot on moutain were unuseable.

Like Storm, I was nanostalling without understanding why, but it's probably because I'm new to Spring and new to XTA and that a few things escaped me. For instance it took me long to understand I had to self D the regular mexx for the moho to work.

But otherwise, I'm really impressed that it's already really playable, without any crashes, and with most things useable and making sense. Save XTA ;).
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sparkyhodgo
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Post by sparkyhodgo » 27 Apr 2005, 03:15

LOS can be turned on if you press L

Great job overall. Many features work even better than I expected, especially dual monitor and unit movement in large groups (especially FARK factories and airplanes). Here's what can use improvement:

I agree about the camera. All the time I find myself with a good view angle, only to get snapped out of it abruptly with the wrong button, which ALWAYS results in me staring at the ground really close up. Could we get some intuitive controls? Why does scroll wheel go up/down but not zoom in and out? An autoscroll would be very nice when the mouse reached the edge of the window.

Starcraft mouse clicking? Didn't expect THAT.

I still can't figure out how to smoothe terrain. I thought my con unit was supposed to level the ground for my structures, but it doesn't.

I can't figure out where this set of units came from. A mobile fusion? I don't remember that. What happened to my own mod?

No shadows for me either :( Maybe a gf3 is not good enough.

Minimap needs some work. I love that I can resize it and move it, but why can't I interact with it? Would be great to use it to send unit orders.

Could you document the view modes? C is FPS, and J gives you the mouse back. And T is chase camera. But where is OTA view?

FPS is hard to control. Could we get something closer to Half Life 2's dune buggy? It was much easier for me to aim that dunebuggy while driving than to aim my flash tank.

The GUI needs some work. The font is hard to read, and the energy and metal bars overlap a little for some reason. Otherwise works well.

I couldn't get any ripple effect on the water. Does the water move? I think it should.

Could we add some scenery to the background, so the map looks like more than a floating map in space?
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sparkyhodgo
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Post by sparkyhodgo » 27 Apr 2005, 03:17

And could we get move orders, projectiles, nanolathes, and slection boxes to contrast more with the ground? On the flooded desert map it's really hard to pick out what's going on unless you zoom really close.
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The Grand Poobah
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Post by The Grand Poobah » 27 Apr 2005, 03:30

ctrl+middle mouse click or backspace changes camera mode, it cycles through fps mode(default), ota mode and rtw mode.
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Caydr
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Post by Caydr » 27 Apr 2005, 03:53

All my complaints have already been listed, but I'd also like to suggest that there could be an option to reverse the mouse wheel axis as you can reverse the mouse axis.

Oh, and setting the detail mode too high results in the game crashing to desktop if you try to load it. At first I'd assumed that my whole download was bugged... I'd like to see the following options added to the configurator:

Reset to default
Low detail
Medium detail
Maximum detail

With some intuitive presets. Some people may not be computer savvy enough to decide on the things that should be on and the things that should be off to optimize performance on their slower machines.

I also noticed that many settings have sliders, but it would be good if they also had a text box so you could input a specific number.

BTW guys, be sure to read the readme... if it was not intended to be read, it would be named "OH GOD NOOOO!! DON'T READ ME!!!!.txt"... MUCH valuable information in there.
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Caydr
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Post by Caydr » 27 Apr 2005, 04:05

Arm con. kbots unfold so slow that the started building vanishes before the poor thing is ready to build. Therefore, one of my bots only managed to build two solars out of eight, not to mention how (dis)efficient the MT engineers were. Especially if they wanted to reclaim a tree before starting (and had to first fold in and then unfold).
This is, of course, a script issue, not a Spring issue. Why not go post it in a scripting forum? You'll get more answers there.
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FolCan
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Post by FolCan » 27 Apr 2005, 04:14

I just want to Say that This is the best thing since sliced bread

I have just finished a game that took 1 and a half or more hours... and only things i have problem with is the how the metal system works i havent quite figured that out

I know you have to put Metal Exs on in the green...

I had fun Controlling my commander and ploughing through units with the Dgun...

And we found you can control everything, I was racing my speed boat thing (cant remeber what they called) shooting my big bertha and nuke and more

so far i have had no errors or problems


only problems are the ones that arnt on my pc like problems with the host so i cant play

I give SY a Big Thumbs up and hope there work will only get better
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Caydr
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Post by Caydr » 27 Apr 2005, 05:51

Another bug I noticed is that aircraft seem to sometimes get "stuck" at the edge of the map.
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Redfish
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Post by Redfish » 27 Apr 2005, 09:18

There is still a big problem with pathfinding. I keep getting units stuck behind trees THINKING they are moving towards the place where they are supposed to build, but they never get there and don't give a message. So I keep wondering why those queues aren't built.

I have a GF4600 here on this pc and shadow really add to the game, would be nice if someone could make a dx8 shader.

I only have colorized map and even turned vertex trees off. The game speed also seems buggy. It's not responsive. And speed 4 is just too fast to play anything. So maybe a new scale would be nice.
Storm wrote: Just as I presumed, the terrain deformation is brutal to say the least. Going Vehicle Plant is completely pointless, since no vehicles could even dream of passing the rubble created by a flash and six MTs.
It was only a matter of time now before you'd start about this, eh! ;)

However I think 30-50% of the current deformation hits the sweet spot for spring.
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SJ
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Post by SJ » 27 Apr 2005, 10:27

For those having problem with the camera, the readme is there to be read.

When playing xta at least I havent seen vehicles get totally blocked by craters very often. They can usually get through although not at top speed.

Con units will level terrain but only up until a point defined in the buildings tdf file.

Shadows need gf5000+/radeon 9500+ cards to work. Not sure if there might be some driver problems also.
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zwzsg
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Post by zwzsg » 27 Apr 2005, 11:26

Caydr wrote:
Arm con. kbots unfold so slow that the started building vanishes before the poor thing is ready to build. Therefore, one of my bots only managed to build two solars out of eight, not to mention how (dis)efficient the MT engineers were. Especially if they wanted to reclaim a tree before starting (and had to first fold in and then unfold).
This is, of course, a script issue, not a Spring issue. Why not go post it in a scripting forum? You'll get more answers there.
Not fully. In OTA, the nanolathed frame appear and is maintained (but not built), during the unfolding. And in spring the frame appear but is decaying during the unfolding.

And sorry not to have read about "Ctrl + Mouse 3". I feel bad about it.


I think I understand a bit better the terraformation. Apparently cons can build over the deepest trench, but not on even small slopes. I don't know very well how they do the difference, since a trench is only two slopes, but they somehow manage to see if the ground deformation is only local, or if it is part of a bigger relief formation. "Restore ground" is nice, too bad there isn't a "level moutains" button too. BTW, what's the shortcut for it? I checked both \docs\README.html and uikeys.txt and couldn't find it.
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BlackLiger
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Post by BlackLiger » 27 Apr 2005, 14:18

2 things need some more work. Units should be stopped from leaving the map, including aircraft, which should instead have the map expanding like was decided..........

and second. I dont have all the build options on my menu. To build anything energy related, i had to wait till i had a con air and then build geos... no solars, no winds..........
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Sean Mirrsen
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Post by Sean Mirrsen » 27 Apr 2005, 16:13

Most of those problems, including the scripting issues, are largely caused by the XTA pack supplied with Spring. Revert to OTA, and everything will be fine.
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Xinos
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Post by Xinos » 27 Apr 2005, 16:49

Yes, I hope they fix all this...

I would really a better camera system... perhaps something identical to Rome Total War... since the one in Spring is very slow and hard to manuver. I don't like to use TA Cam, evean though it's the easiest.
I feel that original view removes the concept of Spring as it looks like normal TA =P

And I really dislike the big blue chatbox, maybe make it smaller and more transparent, aswell as pushing it up into the corner.

I also do not like the new HUD v_v"
The Build and Comands should be different tabs, and not different pages you have to scroll through, and also the same amount of buildings on each page would be nice, so that it wouldn't cover so much screen area.

Original HUD is by far more afficient.

Oh yes, also, pressing Enter with the chatbox emty should close the chatbox, and NOT send a empty message =)
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sparkyhodgo
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Post by sparkyhodgo » 27 Apr 2005, 17:59

Could we modify the sound volume? Sound effects are nonexistant at even a moderate zoom out, and I miss having that "ka-shunk!" noise whenever I click on a factory. Also, no matter how zoomed out I am the D-Gun is always loud. Very, very loud.
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Caydr
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Post by Caydr » 27 Apr 2005, 20:44

Sorry, don't know if this has been posted yet:

Paralyzers don't work (they just do masssive damage)
Unit-specific damage is ignored, only the default amount is applied.
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Storm
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Post by Storm » 27 Apr 2005, 21:21

The Valkyrie failed to unload my comm. It just didn't care.

Also, about the terrain deformation thing. Do you have any idea of how it can be exploited?

Image
A few minutes hammering gives this fully passable field (made by GA).

:|
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Redfish
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Post by Redfish » 27 Apr 2005, 21:26

I think u made yer point storm :)
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Sean Mirrsen
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Post by Sean Mirrsen » 27 Apr 2005, 21:40

I think I'll make a post on this...
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