FileUniverse official statement, listen up. - Page 2

FileUniverse official statement, listen up.

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Cabbage
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Post by Cabbage » 26 Jun 2006, 22:42

You can't guarantee that that map reviewers will be impartial. You can't cater for all tastes with a few map reviewers.

I'm really against a select few deciding what maps are good and what arn't, one persons idea of an awful map, speedmetal for instance, is another persons idea of an ideal map...

People can judge for themsleves what contitutes a good map, they don't need others deciding for them. Generaly the crap ones arnt downloaded very often as it is anyway (afaik). Compare the number of downloads between popular maps such as speedmetal and a map like maze.....

Having a huge number of what most people would consider poor maps shouldn't have too much of an impact as they arn't downloaded too often, but people SHOULD still be able to download them if they so wish too regardless.
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Storm
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Post by Storm » 26 Jun 2006, 23:02

As of now, there's a voting system that disables maps with too low vote score to be downloaded. That way we don't deal broken or useless maps.
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Comp1337
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Post by Comp1337 » 26 Jun 2006, 23:23

Storm wrote:As of now, there's a voting system that disables maps with too low vote score to be downloaded. That way we don't deal broken or useless maps.
So if im the first to download and rate it as 0, noone else can ever download it and rate it?
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Storm
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Post by Storm » 26 Jun 2006, 23:33

Like all other sites in the world, rating doesn't work if only one person does it.

It is possible to rate an item in integers between -2 and 2. At a total count of -20, the download is disabled. If you get ten other buddies, you could rape the lists, but then I could just expand it to -40 and it won't matter anyway.
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AF
AI Developer
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Post by AF » 26 Jun 2006, 23:35

Maybe the main server for FU can ahve the most popular maps of the last week or two, then maps can be moved over to a server with less bandwidth if they arent downlaoded as much.
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Tim Blokdijk
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Post by Tim Blokdijk » 26 Jun 2006, 23:38

Storm wrote:
The point here is that I'm not going to donate money for something that can be fixed technicality.
And I'm also not going to click on ad's I don't care for.

Storm: post a request for someone with the skill's to implement something like this.
1. Besides the most popular files, there are hundreds of things on the page that are not as popular or in beta form or under constant developement. If you can ensure me at 100% notion that I can at any given time download any given file with the kind of maximum connection the FU server provides you, you may claim it's a technical problem. Until then, it is possible to partly cut down the traffic by torrenting out all the Spring maps, but while that will certainly feel good for a while, that is not a sollution because FU usage grows exponentially.

And regardless, until we find people that can recode the whole thing into a Peer to Peer system, we will still manage downtime in the end of every month. A small donation will cause Nexus to pay for more traffic while losing less money. Regardless of problem, he paid the same bulk for more than three years now. No one has ever given back to him.

2. Who the fuck cares about ads anyway? If people cared, we'd never have a problem in first place. If you forgive me for being blunt, but click the fucking ad wherever you like it or not. It will send a penny back to Nexus. Two clicks a day from each of you will completely pay for all server costs. Is that HARD to accomplish after all he done for you? After all hours we all admins coders and members put down on FU?

3. Nice to see your mental support to get this thing back on track.
Ah, you replied quite fast, well let's take this right to the sour points before this tread degrades into a feature request frenzy. (You should drop by more Storm)

----

I claim it's a technical problem.
Make FU seed the files (without a cap) and you have "the maximum connection the FU server provides" plus all the other seeds.

Have you asked around for someone that can "recode the whole thing into a Peer to Peer system"?
There are people here that know how to code things like that.
And there is a lot of work already done in this field.
Fnordia had a tracker running on this server, you could ask him what is involved.

About the donation part, you don't make a good impression on how you present the current facts.
You kind of pull the plug and say unless I see money you will have "downtime in the end of every month".
Now, this is not a good impression if you like people to make a donation.
You need good arguments and show that my money will really make a difference.

Now, you could have:
Informed us of this problem beforehand, you didn't.
Ask around about how to handle the exponential growth, you didn't.
Picked up on the "numerous" (according to Dragon45) suggestions to make FU support torrents, you didn't.

The only solution you provide to "solve" this problem:
Click on ad's and/or donate money.
And at the same time you also remind us that that won't solve anything as Nexus will still lose money every month.

Now the combination of what you could have done and actually did doesn't give me the impression you are capable of managing my money in a way that it will be beneficial to me or the community.

And don't make yourself and Nexus look like some unloved benefactors.
You are part of what is making all this possible, just like I and loads of other people are part of what makes it all work.
You get a lovely community in return.
Be more involved on this forum and enjoy the things people manage to do with the bandwidth you provide.

And about your last point, this reply might be of more use to you then a large donation, you might not see it that way but this is my "mental support to get this thing back on track."
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Post by Forboding Angel » 27 Jun 2006, 00:04

Storm, I tend to try to fix up the maps as good as I can, but unfortunately everytime I make a change to one map I ahve to reload the maps page. This gets really really old. Honestly all maps should be set to 0 priority so that the pics don't show up. Either that or seperated in the alphabet pages.

COuld we please disable public uploads? It's not difficult to get an account and trying to keep the public folder in line is head vs wall round 1. Plus, get rid of the upload script being accessed from the side bar and only ley it be accessed through "upload file to Here". THis would help A LOT with the orginization. As it is now I go nuts. SHit comes in faster than I can even hope to catch up. And most of it goes to the wrong place.

While I am mostly silent about the things I do on FU, I do quite a bit, but at some point I jsut get discouraged and give up.
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El__Castro
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Post by El__Castro » 27 Jun 2006, 07:54

Regarding some of the points posted above, I will direct your attention to this thread here: aitch tee tee pee:// taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5648

Tom: Most of your concerns are being worked on. Those that aren't, aren't because you're apparently ignoramus. If you don't want to donate, then don't. Save us the righteous indignation, however.

As for why there was no warning: It happened a couple of days before we thought it would. Since all of us are volunteers, and all of us have other committments, we're not always able (or willing) to do things as soon as they crop up.
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Storm
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Post by Storm » 27 Jun 2006, 16:44

Peer questions being answered, there's some left...
About the donation part, you don't make a good impression on how you present the current facts.
You kind of pull the plug and say unless I see money you will have "downtime in the end of every month".
Now, this is not a good impression if you like people to make a donation.
You need good arguments and show that my money will really make a difference.
I saw what happened only after reading Castros newspost on the matter and I my initial reaction was "Shit shit shit shit". If you think any of us pulled the plug to be able to scam people for money, you are honestly daft.

As I said in another thread, I don't expect anyone to donate anything at all because such assumptions are hard to come by with a player base with the average age of 17. Please spare me all the reasons why you won't donate. Honestly, if you don't, fine, but it's worth asking, especially considering the amount of money Nexus pushes in every month without asking anything in return.
Informed us of this problem beforehand, you didn't.
Was notified two hours after the automatic switch shut off the site.
Ask around about how to handle the exponential growth, you didn't.
I have three jobs, a senseless training scheme and a social life to tend to. FU is growing exponentially and we all knew that, but it hit us too fast. I was planning to tend to it when I finally get some vacation, but alas, the calamity happened several weeks before that.
Picked up on the "numerous" (according to Dragon45) suggestions to make FU support torrents, you didn't.
I've spoken to DM several times and he never mentioned any. He has left a whole bunch of improvement suggestions to the site, but nothing of this matter.
Click on ad's and/or donate money.
And at the same time you also remind us that that won't solve anything as Nexus will still lose money every month.
As said, perhaps he could lose less money while paying for more BW. Wouldn't that be a kind of improvement or does it sound worse to you? What's two clicks gonna cost ya?
And don't make yourself and Nexus look like some unloved benefactors.
Nexus have plowed down forkloads of cash and never got anything back out of it. I've donated so much spare time on this shit it's not even funny. I don't earn anything and I don't even want anything back. All I want is for the page to stay up and work properly. After all we done for you, is it that hard to donate us five seconds everytime you get onto the site? Does it really mean anything to you?
Be more involved on this forum and enjoy the things people manage to do with the bandwidth you provide.
Give me a single reason to sit back and relax when the whole site is down.
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Zenka
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Post by Zenka » 27 Jun 2006, 21:25

Don't panic.

There are still folks who do understand your position Storm, and appreciate your work very much.

I won't be annoyed to accidently click some adds for FU's sake ^.^
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Tim Blokdijk
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Post by Tim Blokdijk » 27 Jun 2006, 23:02

Storm wrote:Storm's response to my post.
Alright, you cleared some things up for me, how can I donate exactly?

And to answer the questions you asked:
This donation round won't solve the long term problem that Nexus is losing money.
The thing I'm work on in the Spring community is long term planning (I wrote the roadmap etc.) I like to solve problems and in this case a donation will delay the problem as far as I can see.

I don't know if I ever will click an ad, but hell maybe next time I stumble across FU I will.
I actually don't use FU that much as I still can't really play Spring on my Linux system.
But I'm interested in having Spring grow large, FU is a great instrument to reach that goal.

And for those reading along, Fnordia pays for this server, he could use your funds to keep this board running.
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Dragon45
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Post by Dragon45 » 28 Jun 2006, 06:05

Whoa whoa!

Don't drag me into this minor flame-fest

Let me expand on my previous statement so that there are no confusions:

I, along with several other people, have suggested on many occassions, making FU a giant torrent tracker. Storm may or not remember; i may or may not have spoken *directly* to him (via MSN) about it. Honestly, it doesnt matter now, so lets forget about it.

So:

1) Storm, Nexus, etc are busy,; ltos of stuff hasn't ben implemented that could really help the site - HOWEVER - noone begrudges them that, and everyone knows that:

2) Stuff takes time to implement.

3) Hopefully this shock will rally some people to helping Storm redo the site.





-------------

Part 2:

Here's another idea for the map voting system:

1) Implement the system as is already implemented in terms of points, HOWEVER

2) If a map hits the negative threshold, it gets moved to subsection of the maps page "Shitty Maps" or something, where it may still be downloaded, just not so easily. And, since it would be in some buried subsection of Maps, it wouldnt be accessible to the Spring client directly, thus saving most bandwidth.

Currently, if the link to download it is disabled, then it still sits on the server and wastes disk space. Might as well let it still be download for whoever really wants to sift through the shitty maps.



Also, another small optimization that might help in browsing Maps might be paginating maps by groups of ten. The thumbnails and text still take up bandwidth; only issue woudl be that Spring client wouldnt be able to access it all.


----------------

Part 3


FU is essentially a giant file tracking, uploading, modearting, giant uber script-program monstrosity that, and im sure that there are numerous other communities besides the TA community that could make something like this. It's not inconceivable that if FU were rewritten and remade by multiple people, it could be licensed out to other sites to be used (as a last resort to generate a few more $$$$ for *Universe).
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NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Post by NOiZE » 28 Jun 2006, 11:08

Storm wrote:As of now, there's a voting system that disables maps with too low vote score to be downloaded. That way we don't deal broken or useless maps.
Bad Idea.... Could disbable good maps, with weird gameplay..


We just neeed mirrors!!!!!

and as IaMaCup already pointed out it wouldn't be that hard to do!!
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Neddie
Community Lead
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Post by Neddie » 28 Jun 2006, 11:20

I support mirrors.
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Cheesecan
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Post by Cheesecan » 28 Jun 2006, 11:34

I support the following:
Mirrors
BT system with FU as superseeder
Ads on FU - conservatively
Map reviews
Map voting system - that uses a suitable weighing, stars' votes should count more as anyone can make a new accounts and give his favorite map a 10. Plus it takes an experienced player to appreciate good maps. If you have only played speedmetal then you are going to give every other map a 0 because it has too little metal..urgh--
Anything required to keep FU up and running and bandwidth flowing

I think overall many or positive to these things and those who are not are just opposed to change or too lazy to make an effort.
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TDATL
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Post by TDATL » 29 Jun 2006, 01:08

Hi all. Im rather new here. been here bout 4 months floatin about.

I think the ads idea is the best. I would be more than willing to click 5-15 ads a day if it would keep FileUniverse Open.

also on a more technical note. I don't think the torrent idea is a good one at all. think about it for a moment. how does bittorrent work. It works by having everyone connected to it share their bandwith (extreamly simplified version). If you put BT in for maps lets say. then when you want to get a new map you would not be downloading only from FU but from all the other people connected who have the map aswell. this is a resonable Idea at first glance, but. has anyone considered lag? If you are playing games wether they be Spring or otherwise you will have to share your bandwidth with everyone out there who wants a map you may or may not have. Bittorrent and all thoes P2P technology types are hated by ISPs to death not because of legal issues (they really don't care if it doesn't affect them) but because they KILL bandwidth. most ISP's try and look out for P2P tech. If they see trafic that looks suspicious they monitor it and eventually start either blocking the ports it uses or just throttleing it back. In extream cases if you are useing enough of their bandwidth consistantly enough they my cut you off untill A. they work out a new (higher) payment plan or B. Hell Freezes over.

Trust me (thow Im new so you have no real reason to) Bittorrent is a bad move for trying to save bandwidth. It was designed more with the thought of how to get around legalitys of filesharing of licenced products not with the general health or function of the internet as a whole.

Sorry for the long post. I will do my part clickin away at the ads. just gota look for em. havent ever noticed em before (most people have learned to blot them out subconsiously).
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Pxtl
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Post by Pxtl » 29 Jun 2006, 01:21

Ads aren't magical money sources. Advertisers care about conversions from clicks into sales - they also don't like people saying "I'll click on ads to make money for the site".
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TDATL
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Post by TDATL » 29 Jun 2006, 02:25

that is ofcourse true also. however I actually click an ad on there and found some rather interesting things (only one site I saw but I liked it). If the adds were to good places that may pose interest to people who come to FU then more than likely a precentage of people people clicking them to help FU will also find something they like and may go to that site on purpose. thus everyone (FU and the add people) are happy.

like I said most people tend to blot out adds indescriminatly after years of web surfing. the main kinds of adds that would be better IMHO would be ones to a sites main page (amazon.com lets say) rather than thoes adds that link to adds where you will never ever reach any end.

some adds that may interest people that visit FU may be something along the lines of
video, model, sound, graphics editing like software.
games (duh) mostly along the lines of RTS's
networking (equipment, serveces, etc)
books (supprising but true)
and in my case IT stuff's (tech guides, manuals, etc)

more personalized adds (refering to the site) would bring more success than the add rings so many use with ebay and fat and diet pill's randomly circulating. also I tend to actually avoid sound making add's or ones that pop up (if it annoys me It will not be clicked I refreash for a new one).

just throwin out some ideas into the pot thats all. I used to play TA all day everyday. but back then I only had dailup that I was lucky to get 6k down so no online or anyting. I came back looking into it half a year ago to find it was still a thriving community. I would hate to see FU go down or have any bad fortune. Spring is one of my most frequently played games (allthow I havent gone farther than vrs. AI yet).

hope something helps.
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ILMTitan
Spring Developer
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Post by ILMTitan » 29 Jun 2006, 04:43

TDATL wrote:Trust me (thow Im new so you have no real reason to) Bittorrent is a bad move for trying to save bandwidth. It was designed more with the thought of how to get around legalitys of filesharing of licenced products not with the general health or function of the internet as a whole.
That is untrue.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.0 ... rrent.html

The really interesting stuff starts in the middle of the second page.
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TDATL
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Post by TDATL » 29 Jun 2006, 05:30

ILMTitan wrote:
TDATL wrote:Trust me (thow Im new so you have no real reason to) Bittorrent is a bad move for trying to save bandwidth. It was designed more with the thought of how to get around legalitys of filesharing of licenced products not with the general health or function of the internet as a whole.
That is untrue.

**hyperlink excluded**

The really interesting stuff starts in the middle of the second page.
can you please specify what is untrue. that is a very comprehensive yet non-discriptive term. there are 3 issues in that paragraph that could (as far as I can see) have the term untrue assigned to them.

1. "Im new so you have no real reason to"

2. " Trust me" "Bittorrent is a bad move for trying to save bandwidth"

3. "It was designed more with the thought of how to get around legalitys of filesharing of licenced products not with the general health or function of the internet as a whole"

most likely Im assuming you are refering to the 3rd one and possible the 2nd.

If you are refering to whether he designed it as an illegal or legal means of swaping files. well, that really is not related to wether its a good option to implement it. It was more a spur of the moment comment not really part of the first two points in the paragraph.

If you are refering to saving bandwidth. then it all depends on your point of view. from FU's point of view it will save a TON of bandwidth. however overall it will use up ALOT MORE bandwidth. an example. If I download a map from FU. all the transactions (info, frames, packets whatever) are generally confined to going to and from FU's server(s) and back to my computer. however If I use a torrent. I send out a request to the torrent site other "locations" (people computers) I can find this file. then the messages start swarming. constant chatter between many many peers. involving what parts of a file they have and many other things that would not be needed from a more direct connection. P2P works resonably well for most cases *for the involved individuals*. however it uses alot more bandwidth on the internet as a whole. slow internet means bad news for everyone. also in the case of games. it means anytime all the time people will be coming to your comp to get files. while you are playing online, downloading updates, fileing tax returns. the option to turn this off kills the whole idea. because people will turn it off and guess what. the few people that have it on will get hammered and everyone will move like molases.

a crude "example" of a similar simulation would be. if you had a warehouse full of people. and all the people need a book (individual sheets for this example). FU's way has people lineing up comeing to the front and taking sheets quickly, quietly, and effeciently. P2P gives acouple of people the book. now everyone must randomly pick a page from the book (like from an index) and ask the person next to them if they have the page, and if not can they find out who has it. this will all happen in all at about the same time. in other words. chaos. the talking that was fluid and smooth became turbulent and noisey.

P2P is one of thoes fools gold things. to some of even the most deserning eyes it looks like a miracle. but in reality its just a rock that messes up your molten gold if you drop it in.
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