Veterency and Titles.

Veterency and Titles.

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Neuralize
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Veterency and Titles.

Post by Neuralize » 06 Mar 2005, 03:51

So, say each unit has a rank and name to go with it.
For core, these names would probably be a generic sequence of numbers.
For arm, they would consist of fairly human names. (First and Last.)

Spring would pull these names random from txt files, or something that you could edit with notepad.

Additionally, rank should be part of the name of the unit, something like..
Kills: Arm/Core

0: Private/Pattern
5: Soldier/Grid
10: Warrior/Something
20: Veteren/Something
50: Hero/Matrix

Additionally, I believe that veterency of a unit should yield really nifty abilities, whether it be faster turn time/fire rate/healing, and/or granting you the option to control the unit. Whatever it is, it needs to make that unit distinct in battle, giving it some sort of prestige.

Just little things that might add to the feel to the game.
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sparkyhodgo
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Post by sparkyhodgo » 06 Mar 2005, 06:04

I completely agree. I put a post about my thoughts in the requests thread.

Basically, I said what you said, though I think it should apply only to mobile units, so not your immobile bases defenses.
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Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Post by Warlord Zsinj » 06 Mar 2005, 11:11

It'd be nice to get a visual representation of veterancy on units too. Something akin to TAK's "gold armour" on units, but less tacky...
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Min3mat
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Post by Min3mat » 06 Mar 2005, 13:46

what about some old school C&C Red Alert 2 rankings:
/\ (bronze)
/\/\
/\/\/\
/\ (silver)
etc. and still hae levels beyond
/\/\/\ (gold) like TA so every 5 kills a unit becomes better but for the first 45 or so kills the changes are more apparent than those after /\/\/\ (gold) THAT would be cool!
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Post by zwzsg » 06 Mar 2005, 16:26

I'm still not sure veterancy is such a good idea, but I know that instead of just names or icons, I'd like the veterancy to be shown by changes on the unit itself. I don't think we can make golden thorns like in TA:K grow out of kbots and tanks, so I suggest that the arm/core logo texture be replaced by a rank texture. So for instance you could see the rank of bombers by looking at the insigna on their wings, or see the rank of a krogoth by looking at the sign on his head, etc...
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AF
AI Developer
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Post by AF » 06 Mar 2005, 21:17

hhmmm what about those of us who'd wish to see their own personal insignia instead of the arm or core? Perhaps instead a scripting addition should eb made to the engine to allow those sorts of changes in the unit. And maybe there should eb soemthign like that but not where the insignia is.
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High Caliber
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Post by High Caliber » 06 Mar 2005, 21:33

In first person mode you could have something like Unreal Tournament. Kill multiple enemies in a row and you get messages like "Double Kill," "Triple Kill," and "Holy ****."
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Neuralize
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Post by Neuralize » 07 Mar 2005, 05:33

Another thought on the veterency thingy.

I suppose this could be one of those things you change in the battleroom, like the toggle would be, Experiance [Random, Earned, None.]

Random:

Instead of having the rather unbalanced vetrency system where a unit kicking your ass just keeps getting better, how about having "hero" units materialize randomly when normally building a unit. Only a unit whose cost is below a certain metal/energy value could have this happen, because there are some units, such as the Krogoth which already have heroic qualities to them.

For instance, say you're building your little force of 40 peewees when, WAM! one of the peewees comes out, and for whatever reason, his stats are off the wall, and his color is a little different. Something to at least draw attention to him, y'know? So when he goes into battle and starts kicking ass, your enemy can pinpoint that hero send a hero instigator, or a hero AK, or whatever and they have a little fued, all while the battle rages around them.

Such hero units could have thing such as.. Self healing, longer range, longer sight...etc. Perhaps you could randomize the stats that the hero unit gets..

Earned:

Unit kills more, unit gets faster, stronger, bigger, better.

None:

All unit stats stay static regardless of kills.
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
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Post by [K.B.] Napalm Cobra » 07 Mar 2005, 06:01

Go sit in the corner and play WC3 neuralize, cause you're going straight to hell.
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Neuralize
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Post by Neuralize » 07 Mar 2005, 06:04

Never heard of it. ;) (Hell, nor Warcraft 3)
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Doomweaver
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Post by Doomweaver » 07 Mar 2005, 06:49

personally i reckon no veterans, and get rid of kill bonuses all together,
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PauloMorfeo
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Post by PauloMorfeo » 07 Mar 2005, 11:20

Neuralize wrote:... there are some units, ... which already have heroic qualities to them.
...
You're missing entirely the whole point on experience in TA...
Units are not heroic.
Units get experienced, like getting they're cannons better calibrated, drivers getting to know better the vehicles capabilities and vulnerabilities, Et Cetera.

And yes, you sounded alot like making comparison to High-Fantasy games.
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Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » 07 Mar 2005, 11:26

I think he meant because a more powerful Krogoth would be invincible. The idea is sound however. TAPack has one tank, known as the Greyhound, where every sixth unit or so is a command tank with Krogoth missiles and radar. While I'm not talking something that powerful I mean it can be done, without destroying the game. The frequency would have to be dropped severly, maybe one in a hundred, or so.
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aGorm
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Post by aGorm » 07 Mar 2005, 13:29

personally i reckon no veterans, and get rid of kill bonuses all together,
That would just detract from the game, haveing a squad of fighters that are all veterans that you can send up against supirior numbers with the knoledge that they might win is part of the fun of TA.
... there are some units, ... which already have heroic qualities to them....
I dont mind units starting out as veterans, IE leaving the kbot lab with 20 kills as standed (although it would be 20 kills equivilant not actully havein 20 kills...), but what your suggesting would be better in a Warcraft game.

aGorm
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sparkyhodgo
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Post by sparkyhodgo » 07 Mar 2005, 17:14

These ideas sound great. We shouldn't reach the point of having heros like WC3 (that's not very TA-like), but I would like to see units get noticably better the more experience they have. I don't think experience is always appropriate though--Perhaps a Krogoth shouldn't be allowed to get experience so it doesn't get too good.
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aGorm
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Post by aGorm » 07 Mar 2005, 17:21

The Experiance should make changes, but it should be discreet. Like 100 kill Krog would take a noob Krog, but he'd have lost about 90% of his helth. And it should stop having an effect after say 250 kills. So a Full on Krog with 250 kills would beat a noob Krog with maybe... 25% of his helth left. This means it wont be to unbalanced, but there will be a point to keeping you old units.

aGorm
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Sean Mirrsen
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Post by Sean Mirrsen » 07 Mar 2005, 20:10

I think that in the new unit format, which I hope will be just a refined version of the current format, it will be possible to link a script function and a system variable to the experience effects. This would allow for certain changes in appearance and behavior when certain levels of experience are reached. I would say that in normal conditions, only the units fire rate and accuracy should be improved (up to 200% each, at, say, 500 kills), while the more noticeable changes (aim rate, weapon damage, etc.) should be only available through the script, providing the necessary extensions are made for weapons switching and such.

About hero units - just have a "canswitch" tag to the FBI, and the "switchtarget" tag to define the unit to switch to. Maybe a "switchpercent" tag for switch probabilities. Easy and vastly customizable. So, a normal peewee could become an officer peewee, that has bigger guns, and such.
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Min3mat
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Post by Min3mat » 07 Mar 2005, 20:30

lol hero pewees that will give the krogoth a beating David vs Goliath
Peewees: :shock:
Peewee Officer: "i'll save u!"
Peewee Officer: :shock: fuck this i'm off
Krogoth turns and fires blue laser of Death... and peewee somehow survives to fight another day. Anyway how about heroes also get exp for getting hit but only 25% or so of what exp it would receive for dealing that no of hitpoint damage... so frontline troops mprove not just snipers!
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PauloMorfeo
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Post by PauloMorfeo » 07 Mar 2005, 21:23

To all of you concerned about units getting too much XP, consider the average life span of units...

Most units die in one or two fights... Even Krogoths don't generally last much long. When they do it's because they've gotten to win the game and by then it doesn't really matter anymore.

Ofcourse Big lovely Berthas (and sometimes Guardians) are the exception as they often acumulate many kills but that's what we should earn from keeping them alive (that's a very hard task!).
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Sean Mirrsen
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Post by Sean Mirrsen » 08 Mar 2005, 00:37

Well, I can say a few words of what system Spring currently uses. I tested The Legacy's EDF race, and used a Krogoth for target practice of the infantry. An infantryman has 30 health in its normal state. Obviously, there was only one Krogoth, so in TA, the infantry wouldn't be able to get any experience with it, even if they killed it. But, instead, Spring increases a unit's experience with any damage it deals. There is a certain max value to experience, and at that max value, the infantry had 60 health points. I couldn't notice a fire rate increase, since the machineguns already fire too fast to count, but I think there also was an increase. The range didn't increase. The accuracy was already good, so I didn't notice. The speed, I think, remained the same.

It would be nice if the amount of damage a unit has to deal to get that full experience would be dependant on unit's health. I didn't notice anything like that yet.
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