Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines - Page 3

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 1094
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by raaar »

yes, it's terrible.

1553 maintenance build can be downloaded from my game's web site:
https://www.metalfactions.pt/engines/sp ... _win32.zip
https://www.metalfactions.pt/engines/sp ... _win64.zip
https://www.metalfactions.pt/engines/sp ... inux32.zip
https://www.metalfactions.pt/engines/sp ... inux64.zip

but we could all change to 1560 (which showed up a day or so ago on https://springrts.com/dl/buildbot/default/maintenance/ )

(wait, we can't, it only has the win32 build)
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6240
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by FLOZi »

ThinkSome has been banging on about this for years, and now it has failed completely. :|
raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 1094
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by raaar »

saturnV wrote: 06 Dec 2020, 20:44 hosts using test versions of spring with no download:
6x BAV10.24
4x BA test-10864
6x evolutionRTS
1x journeywar
3x Metal Factions
4x Phoenix Annhilation
1x Spring 1944 test
4x Tech Annhilation
2x TA Prime
-----
8 games on 31 hosts


hosts using potentially downloadable versions:
1x imperial winter on spring 104
1x Steam Spring 1944 on spring 103
3x NOTA on spring 103
------
3 games on 5 hosts.

(...)

Why are those hosts broken? The script that deletes testversions is only half the answer. The perhaps bigger problem is that those games and hosts were abandoned.
most of those hosts that were using build 1553 have not been abandoned. Maintenance build 1553 was there until a few days ago. This is a very recent issue.

That said, the fact that 1553 was removed without any replacement is VERY BAD. Wasn't the cleanup script supposed to keep the latest 3 versions or something (even if older than 3 months)?

Who has access to the buildbot directories? Why aren't the 1553 files restored?
saturnV
Posts: 107
Joined: 03 Dec 2020, 07:58

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by saturnV »

that script is literally deleting spring playerbase.

why even use testversions? just use stable.
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MasterBel
Posts: 271
Joined: 18 Mar 2018, 07:48

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by MasterBel »

They're not test versions. Not exactly. Some of them are quite stable. Over time Maintenance branch has built up quite a large array of features not supported on 104.0. A few of us think we should have released more stable versions, but in lieu of that happening, all we can do is notify host owners when they need to update, and make sure there's always a new, relatively stable version that they can update to.

I don't think it's a nice option, but at this point it seems the best we have.

If someone could release a new stable version, 104.1 or something, that would be awesome!
saturnV
Posts: 107
Joined: 03 Dec 2020, 07:58

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by saturnV »

MasterBel wrote: 07 Dec 2020, 23:28 They're not test versions. Not exactly. Some of them are quite stable.
That makes no sense. Do you mean "stable" as in "does not crash much"?
I mean stable release as in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_ ... le_release
A few of us think we should have released more stable versions,
"we"?
Are you involved with engine releases?
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MasterBel
Posts: 271
Joined: 18 Mar 2018, 07:48

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by MasterBel »

saturnV wrote: 08 Dec 2020, 15:29
MasterBel wrote: 07 Dec 2020, 23:28 They're not test versions. Not exactly. Some of them are quite stable.
That makes no sense. Do you mean "stable" as in "does not crash much"?
I mean stable release as in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_ ... le_release
Stable as in "We could have released this as a stable release but chose not to". At some point it's just a technicality.
saturnV wrote: 08 Dec 2020, 15:29
A few of us think we should have released more stable versions,
"we"?
Are you involved with engine releases?
"We" as a community: I'm in no way part of the engine dev team. I'm working on my C++ so one day I could be. Hopefully.
raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 1094
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by raaar »

meanwhile, a week passed and the 1553 engine directory on the buildbot server is still missing.
ivand
Posts: 310
Joined: 27 Jun 2007, 17:05

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by ivand »

Abma still hasn't read my message. Probably on vacation or something.
saturnV
Posts: 107
Joined: 03 Dec 2020, 07:58

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by saturnV »

MasterBel wrote: 08 Dec 2020, 23:43
saturnV wrote: 08 Dec 2020, 15:29
MasterBel wrote: 07 Dec 2020, 23:28 They're not test versions. Not exactly. Some of them are quite stable.
That makes no sense. Do you mean "stable" as in "does not crash much"?
I mean stable release as in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_ ... le_release
Stable as in "We could have released this as a stable release but chose not to". At some point it's just a technicality.
Call it a "technicality" or whatever you like. Test-versions are not suitable for playing because they get auto-deleted and sometimes miss builds.
This thread is from 2019 but the problem is even older. It seems unlikely that engine developers will adjust the auto-deletion anytime soon. Updating the hosts does not work either: too unreliable in the past.
So possible solutions:
a) use 104 - not wanted/possible because games are not compatible anymore?
b) allow all versions as it used to be (might bring back at least BA and other games whose players flock around BA)
c) put a notice in the Read_Me_First link (linked in topic of #newbies) and explain why the official server is official fucked by "technicalites."
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ThinkSome
Posts: 387
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by ThinkSome »

This issue proves that the official infra is not to be trusted if you are serious about your game. In that regard, ZeroK, BAR and BA (have I missed any?) moving to their own respective places was a good choice, and a choice that is undoubtedly going to be made by other games shortly enough.
raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 1094
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by raaar »

I guess i'll have to do it too.

It's so weird though.

The official infrastructure and content distribution (games, maps, engines) almost works ...but the content part has been failing recurrently for...two years?

Then the maintainers go dark...but then they show up again and it starts kind of working until it breaks a month later.

1553 hasn't been restored. Wouldn't just restoring the directory on the file system fix the issue?
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ThinkSome
Posts: 387
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by ThinkSome »

raaar wrote: 16 Dec 2020, 03:22 1553 hasn't been restored. Wouldn't just restoring the directory on the file system fix the issue?
There's no backup to restore from.
raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 1094
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by raaar »

There is, luckily i had downloaded the content of each directory within the 1553 maintenance build directory a few days earlier.

I put it on my web site and posted the links here:
viewtopic.php?p=596091#p596091
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ThinkSome
Posts: 387
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by ThinkSome »

raaar wrote: 16 Dec 2020, 06:00 There is, luckily i had downloaded the content of each directory within the 1553 maintenance build directory a few days earlier.

I put it on my web site and posted the links here:
viewtopic.php?p=596091#p596091
Yes; I was imprecise and inaccurate. What I meant was that there is no backup being done infra-side and even if was, there would be no one willing to restore it (this could also be inaccurate, but history teaches us otherwise). Is there someone other than Abma that has access to it?
saturnV
Posts: 107
Joined: 03 Dec 2020, 07:58

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by saturnV »

Does the spring server even matter anymore?

BA10 is abandoned.
BA9/11 is on a different server.
BAR is on a different server.
zeroK is on a different server.
evolutionrts bundles its outdated engine test-version with installer.
Phoenix Annhilation is a dead artifact of the BA10 mess.
TA Prime - no idea what that is and never seen it played. has hosts on springfightclub, too.
Tech Annhilation is the only game still somewhat active on server. Mostly played by group of older players who need no downloads anymore. Seen it played on springfightclub, too.

Other games are dead / no players / no hosts anymore.
raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 1094
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by raaar »

saturnV wrote: Does the spring server even matter anymore?
(...)
BA-centric whining. If the spring server doesn't matter to you why are you here complaining about it?

It matters to me. MF exists, also Spring 1944 and other games. There's life in the desert!

This web site also lures people into installing springlobby and joining the official server so there has apparently been a low but steady influx of players which probably bounced off to the other servers or out of the spring ecossystem entirely due to various issues (some of which could have easily been avoided).

The question is how much it matters to the people maintaining the engine officially and the infrastructure?

If it didn't why would they even bother moving to new servers (this or updating them). But then they let it break and go afk. It's confusing...
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6240
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by FLOZi »

Why is auto-deletion even still a thing? Not like there are hundreds of new commits requiring new builds on maintenance.
saturnV
Posts: 107
Joined: 03 Dec 2020, 07:58

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by saturnV »

raaar wrote: 16 Dec 2020, 18:23
saturnV wrote: Does the spring server even matter anymore?
(...)
BA-centric whining. If the spring server doesn't matter to you why are you here complaining about it?
Ok, so because I picked the wrong side in BA9-vs-BA10 I am a BA-centric whiner and all my posts are complaining. :roll:
If you had read my posts then you might have noticed I was upset what effect the BA-ban etc had on other games, too.
MF and S1944 I mentioned as "other games", I see no use to go into details of every small game with handful of players at most.
(Certainly not enough players to be hit by teamsize restrictions)
Some games were once bit more popular but with all those action to shrink the community the small games were the first to die.
Plus, for MF you just posted: "I guess i'll have to do it too." refering to following the way of zeroK and BAR and BA.
For spring1944 I also read ideas of new installers and server.

This web site also lures people into installing springlobby and joining the official server so there has apparently been a low but steady influx of players which probably bounced off to the other servers or out of the spring ecossystem entirely due to various issues (some of which could have easily been avoided).
Various reasons? There is currently one big reason and it is a selfmade problem.
[09:04:58] <Vali> test
[09:04:58] <Vali> my spring lobby cannot download the engine, does someone know why

[09:38:01] <Soapy> i joined a game and it threw a bunch of dl errors for a BA game
[09:38:01] <Soapy> but it says downloading balanced annihlation at the bottom

[09:05:02] <TyRamos> Everytime I try to join a lobby, it throws an error that I don't have the right engine verison, but then when it tries to download the engine, it throws another error saying there's no mirrors or that it doesn't exist
[09:05:02] <TyRamos> kinda lost

[19:51:25] <Seiko> Yo i get the error messagethat no mirros were found
[19:52:09] <Seiko> Failed to extract engine 104.0.1-.... maintenance
[19:52:22] <Seiko> What could be the problem?

[19:11:24] <Void> basically everyone plays balanced annihilation on 104.0.1-1553-gd3c0012 maintenace which I'm unable to download as it fails to resolve mirror every time
[19:11:24] <Void> both on my xubuntu and windows10

[19:11:24] <barabrian> all my engine downloads fail :(
Or, if you still see BA as part of spring then there a second selfmade problem.
The question is how much it matters to the people maintaining the engine officially and the infrastructure?
The question is how much do players matter to those people? The last years have shown the answer.
ivand
Posts: 310
Joined: 27 Jun 2007, 17:05

Re: Autohosts operating non-downloadable engines

Post by ivand »

Not sure what you want, saturnV.

Why are you asking these questions? Everyone is aware about the issues you mentioned.
If you want to improve something, go ahead and improve. No need to whine and demand what you have not paid for.
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