dragons teeth?

[clericvash]

Wouldn't it be better if stuff could shoot from behind dragons teeth?

[AF]

hmm, I thought stuf could shoot depending on its height, for example, hlt's in some cases missile towers, artillery, punsihers etc, doomsday devices, vipers etc....

[Kixxe]

Balistic wepons can.


Thats one reson hammers is good... they can shoot over stuff like DT a wreaks.

[clericvash]

i put some laser, missle and other stuff all hit the wall no matter how close or far away they are from the wall...by wall i mean dragons teeth...i think this needs to be balanced out.

Or someone add to the wiki explaining what type of weapons/units/buildings can shoot over.

[AF]

Maybe if you put them right up against a DT wall and make sure the DT are on the same terrain height level as them then you'd get the results you want. Surround HLT with DT's using alt+shift+click for example

[clericvash]

alt+shift+click surrounds something with DT's?

[SinbadEV]

alt+shift+click surrounds the feature/unit with whatever unit you have selected to build... I'll need to get add this to the wiki now...

http://taspring.clan-sy.com/w/index.php ... section=20

someone might want to clairify that

[Felix the Cat]

In my very humble opinion, there are some weapons that should be able to fire above DTs from very close range that cannot do so. I'm thinking mostly of Arm Bulldogs here, but I'm sure there's others. I was on the defensive in a game, all of my allies were dead and I had one corner of the map (on Greenhaven, IIRC). I had a whole bunch of Bulldogs. I decided that I wanted to entrench them behind DTs so that they could fire as stationary weapons with some protection. I even had escape routes and alternate entrenchments all set up - it was going to be awesome. However, a test fire showed that the Bulldogs couldn't fire over the DTs! I found it slightly ridiculous.

The quick fix was to reclaim one or two DTs in the front of the entrenchment so that the Bulldog had a firing window but still had side protection. My fortified positions actually worked somewhat, as the Bulldogs took out quite a few more attackers than they would have without any protection. Unfortunately, the escape routes didn't work as well as I had planned, and I lost most of the force at the first line.

It should also be noted that this is a mod issue, not an engine issue (in this case the mod was AA, but I'd be willing to bet that XTA has the same effect).

[Das Bruce]

Bulldogs have a high velocity projectile in AA, this was at the cost of being able to shoot over dt's at short range.

[clericvash]

Things should be able to shoot over DT, simple. Its fucking annoying not being able to thats its main ueasge...

[Chocapic]

Bulldogs have a high velocity projectile in AA, this was at the cost of being able to shoot over dt's at short range.

btw bulldogs in aa trample dt

[Felix the Cat]

Actually, one would think that a Bulldog would theoretically be able to elevate its gun high enough to shoot over the DTs, and still hit the top of a nearby unit's target area...

[zwzsg]

Do bulldogs have high trajectory toggleable? If so, simply use it. If not, simply add it back.

[Felix the Cat]

No, they don't. Bulldogs aren't artillery and IMO shouldn't be. However, if low trajectory goes from 0 degrees to 45 degrees off horizontal, and a DT immediately adjacent to the Bulldog blocks firing from 0 degrees to 15 degrees, then the Bulldog should fire at the closest target reacheable by 16 degree and above trajectories.

However, that's dynamic ranging, something that I think would be quite nice in Spring but would probably take lots of effort to implement.

[Maelstrom]

Just think about this the other way round. If all YOUR units could fire over DT walls, all the ENEMY's units would be able to as well. Then, the only thing that DT's would be good for would be slowing down an army, as opposed to blocking fire as well.

[clericvash]

good point, lol

[munch]

Just think about this the other way round. If all YOUR units could fire over DT walls, all the ENEMY's units would be able to as well. Then, the only thing that DT's would be good for would be slowing down an army, as opposed to blocking fire as well.

It's not that simple. The point is that you have cover when you're behind DTs whereas your opponent doesn't. E.g. consider arrow slits in castle walls, an archer in the castle can shoot at enemy archers outside, and they can shoot back, but the archer in the castle presents a much smaller target to the enemy. The same should be true for DTs. The reason it doesn't pan out like this is that when firing at a given unit the same point is always aimed for, regardless of whether that point is behind the DTs or not. Thus in OTA a ground unit would always aim at the base of a laser tower, even though the base was protected by DTs and the top half of it not.

It would be much nicer if units aimed at the exposed part of an enemy unit. You'd still get benefit out of DTs etc because they give you cover, but they wouldn't make a unit completely invulnerable to LOS weapons.

On the bulldogs, the basic problem here is that Spring doesn't use proper ballistics to calculate shot trajectories: the maximum range of a ballistic weapon is artificially limited, which means you get bulldogs with high speed projectiles that have to have flat trajectories. IMHO it would be better to just set the maximum shot velocity and maximum elevation for the weapon. That way a bulldog would have the option of firing over the DTs at lower velocity, as long as it didn't have to raise it's barrel beyond the maximum. It would also get round the problem of having to specify High Traj, because the unit would work out for itself what trajectory to fire at.

However, both of these suggestions whilst adding realism to the game would of course cost CPU cycles...

Cheers

Munch

[PauloMorfeo]

...
btw bulldogs in aa trample dt

I didn't knew it was posible. That is a very cool feature.

[Felix the Cat]

Just think about this the other way round. If all YOUR units could fire over DT walls, all the ENEMY's units would be able to as well. Then, the only thing that DT's would be good for would be slowing down an army, as opposed to blocking fire as well.

No, because if an object travels on a ballistic trajectory, it is constantly losing altitude. If I have a Punisher behind a wall of DTs, and you have a Punisher some distance away, so that we are in range of each other, if your Punisher is far enough away, its firing point will be above the height of a DT, but the projectile will fall over its travel so that its actual height at the time it reaches my stuff is lower than the top of the DT, so it hits the DT.

Yes, units should be able to fire over DTs from a short distance away, from either side. If you let the enemy get close enough that he can fire over the DTs, then that's your fault.

[Maelstrom]

But what clericvash was asking for was for his units (bulldogs in this case) to be able to shoot from behind his fortifications at the enemy, while his bulldogs were safe inside his base. Which is why I countered with what I said. But both your points are just as valid anyways.

I say just keep them as they are. If your not happy with them, dont build them. But even LLT's can fire over them, so they are fine for protecting static defences.