Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring - Page 2

Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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8611z
Posts: 169
Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 20:20

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by 8611z »

I think we shouldnt try to emulate unity.
Spring is not unity.
I do not see how "Spring as platform for many games" is like Unity, because Unity is excactly not like that.

One Unity game has nothing in common with another Unity game, except being made on same engine.
But Spring games are multiplayer and so need an infrastructure of download systems, lobby, server, and playerbase too.
Comparing Spring and Unity seems like strawman.
The reason is that making and balancing a RTS compared to other titles, is a huge timesink.
Overcoming these timesinks, that would be awesome.
Games are made of art and textfiles, that is how it goes. Get better at modeling/scripting/whatever and you find ways to be faster. The point is...?
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by PicassoCT »

We got better. The point is we didnt get better at what is the main obsticle for average new spring-game-maker

We have metrics now, which is awesome, in finding out when player give up, or where they struggle, without influencing the player by questioning him in person and thus warping the results.

And you cant play spring-games against one another..

Im talking about non-rts mechanics. That require quick reactions. You cant do those, without rewritting parts of the core engine for it..
You cant do a jump and run in spring, at least none- where the delay is not part of the design...
8611z
Posts: 169
Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 20:20

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by 8611z »

1)"Main obsticle for average new spring-game-maker."
2) "You cant do a jump and run in spring"
I see zero overlap.
We have metrics now, which is awesome, in finding out when player give up, or where they struggle, without influencing the player by questioning him in person and thus warping the results.
No, that is exaggeration as always in spring.
Similiar to the claims of "support for up to 5000 units" and whatever else features games claim. Stretches reality a bit too much.

It is known excactly where players struggle, they give enough feedback.
Just modders always feel hurt in their pride and ignore it.
Which is their own problem unless they start blaming their own failure on Spring.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by PicassoCT »

Knorke do you remember your chain lightning weapon? Did that ever work?
8611z
Posts: 169
Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 20:20

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by 8611z »

Yes, it worked. I know that you and many others are able to do similiar things, so I do not understand the point of question.
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PicassoCT
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Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by PicassoCT »

Same point as always - where is source?
Super Mario
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Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 02:54

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by Super Mario »

Why not have the current engine devs write a list down that they would be interest in implementing, but lack the spare time to do so? They can give cost estimation, descriptions etc.
hokomoko
Spring Developer
Posts: 592
Joined: 02 Jun 2014, 00:46

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by hokomoko »

Super Mario wrote:Why not have the current engine devs write a list down that they would be interest in implementing, but lack the spare time to do so? They can give cost estimation, descriptions etc.
Personally it's because I will not work on spring for money.
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Jools
XTA Developer
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Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 16:29

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by Jools »

I thought our forum was custom designed: how come they can have the same forum software? Do we use a package after all?
Super Mario
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Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 02:54

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by Super Mario »

hokomoko wrote:
Super Mario wrote:Why not have the current engine devs write a list down that they would be interest in implementing, but lack the spare time to do so? They can give cost estimation, descriptions etc.
Personally it's because I will not work on spring for money.
You act like supporting via money is bad thing.
Orfelius
Posts: 103
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 20:57

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by Orfelius »

Super Mario wrote:You act like supporting via money is bad thing.
It was never stated as such. Is it that hard to understand that hoko will not work for money? You should be glad for that fact actually.
Especially that there are no interested people to give him money for developing Spring in the first place.

Especially considering your latest ridiculous request to found a bounty for your idea where you didn't want to contribute in any way either by helping with technical stuff nor by actually funding the bounty.

On the topic at hand: Spring and Weasnoth are 2 very different entities. First off Weasnoth has both engine and the game to maintain (mostly the engine though). Secondly Weasnoth is much much more popular than Spring and its games are and has much much more active community than any of ours'.

I can't be really speaking of specific long term goals much though since I do not even know what could be done (not enough tech knowledge) but I sure am exited for these normal splatting for maps! Optimization is probably on the main list for me as well as ease of developing games on Spring.
Super Mario
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Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by Super Mario »

Orfelius wrote:
It was never stated as such.
Nor do I say such.
Is it that hard to understand that hoko will not work for money? You should be glad for that fact actually.
I understand that. You are getting defensive over nothing.

Especially that there are no interested people to give him money for developing Spring in the first place.
You have no way of knowing that.
Especially considering your latest ridiculous request to found a bounty for your idea where you didn't want to contribute in any way either by helping with technical stuff nor by actually funding the bounty.
Personal attacks is not an argument. It's not about me, stop attempting to do so.
Last edited by Super Mario on 10 Aug 2015, 23:29, edited 1 time in total.
8611z
Posts: 169
Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 20:20

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by 8611z »

PicassoCT wrote:Same point as always - where is source?
Repost the request here: viewforum.php?f=86
$100? That is how spring works now, yes?
hokomoko
Spring Developer
Posts: 592
Joined: 02 Jun 2014, 00:46

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by hokomoko »

8611z wrote:$100? That is how spring works now, yes?
no.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by PicassoCT »

You know, that is pretty bitter. People here do a job, do a job well, they could do for lots of money.

Hell, you even get laughed at by other techys for joining the game-industry, cause its a stupid move moneywise.

I donated to the server - although i allmost never played on it.
We all contribute and all take.

And we might not make it. No fame and groupies. Not even praise by critics. Maybe all that will remain, is some cobwebbed usb some day with my game on it- and no plattform around to play "grandpas" game.

No reason to get bitter.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by FLOZi »

8611z wrote: I think Spring's goals come natural from its strong points:
Without much effort can work on a multiplayer 3D game.
This is possible because "Spring [community]" takes care of the graphics engine, lobby, netcode,..while game maker can concentrate on ,well, making the game.
Multiplayer games require "crictical mass of players": Spring can provide players willing to play, or at least try, new stuff.
If the tested mod is not good then no reason for frustration: Can still play whatever else mods are there.
Basically I think the obvious thing is Spring as platform and community for many games, that is nice goal.
+1 to this. The mantra of games providing their own website/forum/lobby[/server] has lead to fragmentation or the community, not wider appeal. A miss-step in our collective approach to Springs future, imo.
hokomoko
Spring Developer
Posts: 592
Joined: 02 Jun 2014, 00:46

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by hokomoko »

PicassoCT wrote:You know, that is pretty bitter. People here do a job, do a job well, they could do for lots of money.

Hell, you even get laughed at by other techys for joining the game-industry, cause its a stupid move moneywise.

I donated to the server - although i allmost never played on it.
We all contribute and all take.

And we might not make it. No fame and groupies. Not even praise by critics. Maybe all that will remain, is some cobwebbed usb some day with my game on it- and no plattform around to play "grandpas" game.

No reason to get bitter.
Very accurate.

99% of the folks here do things to make themselves and others happier. Being pissed or making others pissed is greatly out of place.
Super Mario
Posts: 823
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 02:54

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by Super Mario »

If you guys want a good starting point, my advise is to conduct a survey by gathering the results from other game/engine development(Unreal, Unity, etc) social media (forums, Reddit, Facebook, etc).
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smoth
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

Post by smoth »

hokomoko wrote:
Super Mario wrote:Why not have the current engine devs write a list down that they would be interest in implementing, but lack the spare time to do so? They can give cost estimation, descriptions etc.
Personally it's because I will not work on spring for money.
"Art for art's sake" anything else is uncivilized :)
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