gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem - Page 3

gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Super Mario
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by Super Mario » 16 Jun 2015, 00:13

PicassoCT wrote:So single Multiplayer? You can watch what the other guys do on there lane of the map, but cant interact? like twicht and chickens combined?
....What?
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AF
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by AF » 16 Jun 2015, 02:13

Super Mario wrote:
PicassoCT wrote:So single Multiplayer? You can watch what the other guys do on there lane of the map, but cant interact? like twicht and chickens combined?
....What?
I would totally spectate that
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PicassoCT
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by PicassoCT » 16 Jun 2015, 07:56

well, at least its not game of thrones.. where you get the enemys troops, if you kill there com!
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qray
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by qray » 17 Jun 2015, 11:32

Jazcash wrote:
Silentwings wrote: I tried to help some of them by updating the read me first. Of course many people don't read the "read me first" and at that point my sympathy expires.
These days, people expect intuitiveness.
See: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20150617

My experience when trying to get friends into BA/Spring: most hurdle was installation and that's when I lost quite some.
Multiplayer is nowadays not so bad with the autodownload-everything, but most want to try a single player first. And then the "problems" start. From my point of view it's really simple, but obviously most people expect a different approach.
Also: most people don't post in forums. The next game that's potentially easier to get running is just a click away...

IMHO, ingame lobby would be perfect solve this. Combine this with an installer that also ships a few maps, make a simple first screen "single player" / "multiplayer" / "setup" and it would make it a lot more accessible for people not wanting to read(*) :-)

(*) though "non-readers" annoy me, they are the majority :wink:
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tacho
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by tacho » 19 Jun 2015, 09:01

Sorry people, I am completely not a experienced player, may be you let me to write here.
)

nowdays, we logiing in the lobby and what are we seeing? All people are sitting at Black Hole Host or how is does it names, 12-16 of them are playing BA on Delta Siege Dry map, 20-25 watching and waiting for their turn. In most cases - vainly.
All other rooms are empty, and waiting people theoretically can move there and play, but they don't.
I have a supposition, that they fear that they will be forced to play 1vs1 if only 1 person will enter in same room and after some minutes of waiting said:"what are we waiting, let's 1vs1". If you play 1vs1, and you fails, you absolutely assured that was a resault of your own operations. It is unpleasantly. As for me, I am afraid to play even in party ))).

So, supposition that people can to partition themselves was failed.
I suppose we need a some compulsion in this context. )
Look at random battles in MWO - you do not know what map you will be dropped, and can not know staffs of you allies and enemies.
It is necessary to do something similar in Spring.
I.e. you only can to choose a race (arm, core) and mode to play and press "start". Parties must be formed automatically, maps must be choosed randomly. The rules and restriction, allies an enemies list must be displayed while loading. If you disconnect, you will be banned for 20-30 minutes. It will be even better then random battles in MWO, because you choose you weaponry during the game.
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Usaga
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by Usaga » 19 Jun 2015, 12:59

Maybe you are right about people dislike playing 1vs1. I do not like it too))) But a lot of people spactating games are not waiting to part in game - they are just enjoing to watch it. I think forsing them to battles will be a bad idea.

About random battles... Well... It will have sence only if it will be choise for player to join regular battle or random.
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tacho
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by tacho » 19 Jun 2015, 15:19

[quote=" It will have sence only if it will be choise for player to join regular battle or random.[/quote]

The choise must be. The MWO mentioned above also have a choise: a "random battle" with 2-5 minutes of waiting and "planetary attack/defence" with system looks like we have in Spring and compatible waiting period :twisted:
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BlitzTank
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by BlitzTank » 21 Jun 2015, 20:12

I don't think Spring games have no chance for success as you say Jazcash, I mean sure the actual liklihood of any kind of population growth with current state of things is like 0.01% :P - but, in my opinion, that is because there are no real developers here or anybody who actually gives a shit. ZK is easily fun enough to become popular and there's no other good games in this genre to compete with.

I play a handful of other indie games which are really doing quite well for themselves despite relatively small following, mainly because the developers of those games put in the work. Inb4 someone says "b-b-but I've put in thousands of hours of work!", lets be honest, with ZKL and Spring Lobby and the UI in game etc, it's like some teenage kid's side hobby, barely even passable as a real game.

The people who actually do work admit that is nothing more than a hobby, so with that in mind it's unrealistic to expect any kind of a real game to come out of it and "gathering feedback" is a bit pointless when the issues are already obvious.
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gajop
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by gajop » 22 Jun 2015, 00:21

BlitzTank wrote:but, in my opinion, that is because there are no real developers here or anybody who actually gives a shit

The people who actually do work admit that is nothing more than a hobby, so with that in mind it's unrealistic to expect any kind of a real game to come out of it and "gathering feedback" is a bit pointless when the issues are already obvious.
This is just silly. There are "real" developers, and despite this being a hobby to most people, good games have been made.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by Forboding Angel » 22 Jun 2015, 02:21

BlitzTank wrote:...in my opinion, that is because there are no real developers here or anybody who actually gives a shit. ZK is easily fun enough to become popular and there's no other good games in this genre to compete with.
Hey! Thanks for coming in and being a giant douche :-)

Some of us do give a shit, as we have given a shit for the past decade or more, but time isn't unlimited, and spring related stuff doesn't pay rent or put food on the table, but thanks for marginalizing everyone here. I'm sure we all appreciate it!
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enetheru
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by enetheru » 22 Jun 2015, 02:32

if this is the response you guys are going to give when people provide negative feedback, I don't see why anyone would bother.

Its just a single persons opinion, their experience. you say more about yourself by reacting poorly.

And considering you guys are devs, calling a players post silly, and personally attacking them by calling them a douche wouldn't inspire confidence.
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gajop
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by gajop » 22 Jun 2015, 02:37

I guess we're calling everything "feedback" these days.
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enetheru
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by enetheru » 22 Jun 2015, 02:51

gajop wrote:I guess we're calling everything "feedback" these days.
Thats what feedback is.. not all of it is useful, some can be ignored, some can be used.. the point is to encourage feedback, the more people feeding back into the system the more chance you have for upgrade of users.

consider this scenario:
for 10 people observing there is 1 person engaging
for every 10 people engaging, there is 1 person helping

the more interaction you get, the more chance of an increase in mind market share, the more chance of more support.

it comes back to the 'tale of two wolves', feed the good feedback, ignore the bad.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by Forboding Angel » 22 Jun 2015, 03:48

His post was decidedly not "feedback". Plus, I've known him for a lot longer and am quite acquainted with his "feedback".
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enetheru
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by enetheru » 22 Jun 2015, 04:08

Forboding Angel wrote:His post was decidedly not "feedback". Plus, I've known him for a lot longer and am quite acquainted with his "feedback".
Thats all well and good but from an outsiders perspective who is new to the ecosystem what does it look like?
Forboding Angel wrote:Hey! Thanks for coming in and being a giant douche
Thats all they see.. not your previous experiences, not all the past indiscretions. they only see what is new and now.

I'm getting very tired of negativity from developers and game devs. There are some bright spots, but mostly its just the same old same old. I am having trouble ignoring it these days and my engagement in the community is diminishing.

users can be as negative and rediculous as they want.. just ban them if they get too unruly. but developers being negative really suck the air out of the room.

I guess i'll leave the ecosystem for a while and come back later to see if its improved. maybe someone will fork spring and provide a positive place to hang out. I've got other things I want to work on anyway.

and i might get a warning for this but the #1 user i've had to ignore to stay motivated is you forbs, consistently volatile and negative. you might make some good content, but you're just not worth the effort.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by Forboding Angel » 22 Jun 2015, 04:34

I like how you accept the troll and admonish those calling out the troll. Oi vey.

It wasn't feedback. In no universe can what he said be considered "feedback". All it was was a bunch of jabs thrown in every direction. And fine then, if you don't like what I post, phpbb has a function to help you out. Add me to your foe list. See how easy that was?
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gajop
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by gajop » 22 Jun 2015, 05:37

I consider myself a Spring dev usually but he didn't give feedback on any of the projects I worked on, so in this case I mostly see myself as a community member, and the community should push other members to give useful feedback. I was recently (rightly) berated for a whiny post on a forum of a commercial game (still felt good to let it out), and I don't think we should act differently in that regard. One might even say that annoying devs all the time might just lead to fewer/more hostile devs.

However, in cases I feel like am the developer and they just my users (customers), then I try to be polite or avoid responding to posts.

To stay on topic, let me quote smoth:
smoth wrote:Players are not going to fill out an exit survey raar.
Exit surveys, the most annoying thing which I can only imagine doing when I need to stop a subscription and it's forcing me to fill it out.
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raaar
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by raaar » 22 Jun 2015, 16:47

It's not meant to be an exit survey forced on people. We have no way to do that.

It's a simple survey page people should be made aware about that could be used to write anonymous feedback, no strings attached. The results of it don't even need to be made public automatically (it shouldn't be, because griefing, mob behavior, etc).

People could use when they quit, or when they are annoyed.

I think we have a reasonably good idea of what the problems with Spring and its games are, but we're probably off when it comes to estimating how relevant each one is.

I'm gonna add something like this when I make the website for my game.
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BlitzTank
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by BlitzTank » 22 Jun 2015, 19:31

Haha this is why I added that "inb4" you may have worked hard on your game forb but there's a reason it was a big flop when you did steam release. The lobby sucked, the server sucked, the autohosts were broken and frankly evo is meh. I totally understand that it is not something that puts food on the table so you can't invest too much time or resources, but that is why I said "just a hobby". Games which are "just a hobby" obviously aren't going to achieve much. There's a big difference between 'setting real goals -> working hard to achieve them' and 'do a bit of work every now and again -> hope for the best'.

Gajop you only have to look at lobby or interface in game to see that there is a lack of "real" game developers. I won't deny that good games have been made but that is through almost 2 decades evolution process with the majority of the legwork done a long time ago. The same old open-source style half-assed contributions which got the engine/games this far just isn't enough to bring the kind of 'success' that everybody would love to see. I think basically either someone gets off their ass and does a proper job or engine will fade into obscurity. I don't see how anyone can disagree with this tbh.

Also yes this is kind of shit talk from somebody who contributed nothing but it annoys me when people dont acknowledge the truth and make threads like "why isn't this game more popular?" "why are people leaving??" etc. It needs a lot of work and no one wants to do it, it's as simple as that. As long as there is no "real game dev" work then playerbase isn't going to get any better.
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MetalSucker
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Re: gathering feedback about people who leave spring ecossystem

Post by MetalSucker » 22 Jun 2015, 19:40

Besides the obvious lack of constructive criticism, I am curious as to why you have chosen to dedicate time to write such long posts, what you have to gain from it personally and why you are not doing the same critique for the other thousands of free games available online - you have a great eye for detail and probably management and should use those skills to improve all the free online games, not just those discussed here, I can't see how anyone could argue you would be a welcome addition to the discussion threads on other forums as well - they need you.

Unless, of course, criticizing other people's free work is just a "hobby" for you, it's not something you're a professional at, well then, it's obvious that your opinion is worth far far less than that of a professional game development and usability expert. But I get it, it's just a hobby for you, so the opinion is half assed, you are not a "real" game reviewer, so your opinions will never get better.

I don't see how anyone can disagree with this tbh. It needs a lot of work and no one wants to do it, it's as simple as that. Your style of writing just isn't enough to bring the kind of 'success' that you would like to see.

Trolling as "just a hobby" obviously won't achieve much. You should get off your ass and do a proper job, or your comments will fade into obscurity!

You would, of course, be quite constructive and helpful if you would take the time to read the growing number of usability, matchmaking, lobby change and UI threads that are here and contribute to them.
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