Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

[smoth]

Deleting the comment that asked a year ago if the project is still active does not really fix anything: just hides some symptons. You were of course not supposed to contact some anonymous guest from a year ago. Just maintain the site so that such questions do not get raised.

I am not going to moderate the page every day for idiot posts. I can check fro time to time but some anonymous guy posting random shit to the site DOES NOT warrant anything but deletion. I have no way to reach that individual and odds are they probably didn't check their post that often. Registered users can "watch" a page for news, media and file posts. They can be pmed and get an email when pmed. So him posting as a guest means he is not able to be reached. Hence the deletion.

old map pack: Link me and I will delete it if I can.

I did, I wrote it is here on this list: http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring/games ( http://www.moddb.com/games/my-spring-map-pack )

But tbh if anyone really cared about that page or anyone maintained it someone would have noticed such things earlier, not after 3 years.

If contacting admins is needed, then do that. If that is too much hassle or does not work, then it is another example why we should not plop spring profiles on every other site.

I already contacted an admin about a few issues, once I hear back from him I will also request he delete that odd link. this isn't about plopping a spring profile on random pages. This engine profile for the NTH TIME has to be created so projects can list this as their engine.

Even still, what is the problem with having older projects listed?

You write "the page exists to have a central link for all projects using the engine."
I think if almost only old dysfunctional projects are listed it goes against that idea:
Instead of the claimed "all projects" it really is "a few old projects."

Maybe deleting old games is not needed, it would open doors for "what project is worthy to be listed" policy, would suck too.
Still:
I do not see what is wrong with a note that says that more stuff can be found on springrts.com and that the list is incomplete?

If you want then leave the old entries as archive or whatever, - but make sure it looks like an archive and not a graveyard; and that life continues in another place.

There is no archive functionality to the site. That isn't how the site works, I get your desired feature but it doesn't mean that is how the site works or ever will work. Moddb prefers for a graveyard appearance rather than an archive. Until they allow us to "archive" we can only ever post a "this project is dead" post and leave it for history. I prefer it that way. Like you said, any other policy results in "what project is worth" issue.

I can edit the page to say whatever I want it to. I can even do some theming to the text area like I did for the grts page. I can always make a "come here for more info" post. did that on the grts page before I altered it to note that the project is dead.

[knorke]

As said, I did not want you to reach the guest, his comment was just example what impression the page gives and what state it is in...

This engine profile for the NTH TIME has to be created so projects can list this as their engine.

If the idea of having spring on moddb is that games can fill out a voluntary field in their profile: Then there is no reason that the spring profile itself should be anything else but a big link to spring homepage.

Profiles like this will always require some work to update. I think whoever uses the site and attempts to bring in more users/projects to is partly responsible for what these newly brought in users do. Which can for example mean to ask them to post a "my project is discontinued" post.
Whoever is in the "Spring Development Team" group on moddb also is responsible how spring is represented there. If someone does not want to do that, imo no reason to be in group. If group is empty, it would mean nobody cares -> close profile.

Two years ago there already was similiar thread:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... ilit=moddb
Two years ago spring moddb had stuff that was two years old two years ago.
Instead of deleting the profile or turning it into link to spring homepage, it was decided to improve and maintain it. Which meant some screenshots and a little text.
Now it is again years later with same situation. I think it is visible that improve & maintain did not work. So my vote is for the no-maintaince-mode: just link to homepage.

Neutral banner logo might be nice for this. Maybe this one:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... db#p348344
(even if is not super perfect bla, neither is current one. and neutral spring logo is preferable)

I can edit the page to say whatever I want it to.

Then add the note thing please.

[smoth]

that was because someone posted a profile called spring as A GAME.

so all projects linked to it were classified as spring modifications. please read the thread before you use it as a point of argument

Also your posts are really ignoring the points I am making here about how the site works. You will not get your way, the site works differently it doesn't hurt you. I will go make a few edits but after that.. you'll have to get over that the internet does not work the way you want it to.

[smoth]

page has been updated. I contacted the guy who has like 5-6 files all for his project that for all guesses is dead. I asked him to take down the excess files.

I have asked z to take down the old KP files.

I have removed:
the ability for community members: to post news, media, downloads. I HAVE NOT removed their ability to post games to the page.

I have changed the project description to make it OBVIOUS where the spring homepage is located... despite the fact that page has it located on the right side.

The page stays.

[knorke]

It was not about "where spring homepage is located" but about that the profile does not cover everything, not all projects etc.
Can you put similiar text in the other tabs too, especially for "games" and "downloads" tab it would be good.
In "summary" tab a short "this is a 3D rts engine" text could have stayed imo. Seems more fitting to have that under summary and not under downloads, atm it is other way around.

Maybe do something about news, currently if you visit profile first and only news you see is about a canceld tourney from a year ago.
Not sure what to replace it with, either just something generic or wait until spring v97.0 and post about that.

The most current news about engine itself is currently this one:
http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring/new ... ix-release
Replace/remove the direct download links.

and more things like this..think for yourself if you want page to stay, do not want to write every small detail.

[raaar]

Two years ago there already was similiar thread:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... ilit=moddb
Two years ago spring moddb had stuff that was two years old two years ago.
Instead of deleting the profile or turning it into link to spring homepage, it was decided to improve and maintain it. Which meant some screenshots and a little text.
Now it is again years later with same situation. I think it is visible that improve & maintain did not work. So my vote is for the no-maintaince-mode: just link to homepage.

i kind of agree with this.

[zwzsg]

I'd rather keep around the old KP installer since they are in some ways better than an up-to-date one:
- 96 breaks Spring.Restart, thus breaking the whole Single Player
- Since a few versions, map changes are hidden until a unit has sight, and that makes HexFarm unplayable. (And that's prolly never gonna be fixed, since it's considered by everybody else a desirable feature).

But I guess I should somehow add a link to Spring RTS wiki and forum in the summary.

[smoth]

raaar

I think it is visible that improve & maintain did not work. So my vote is for the no-maintaince-mode: just link to homepage.

i kind of agree with this.

well, too bad, because that isn't how that site works. You don't just link to the page and call it a day. It requires an engine to exist in their system.



Again, before you lot suggest something, consider what is possible.


Knorke

It was not about "where spring homepage is located" but about that the profile does not cover everything, not all projects etc..

It should not have to. If someone wants their project on the site, it should be added like every other project there. Don't like it? well too bad.

Can you put similiar text in the other tabs too, especially for "games" and "downloads" tab it would be good.
In "summary" tab a short "this is a 3D rts engine" text could have stayed imo. Seems more fitting to have that under summary and not under downloads, atm it is other way around...

but what you see on the other pages IS the summary text. So you WANT the summary on the front page and the big blue bar on the rest? I can do that...

Maybe do something about news, currently if you visit profile first and only news you see is about a canceled tourney from a year ago.
Not sure what to replace it with, either just something generic or wait until spring v97.0 and post about that.

Or I will do nothing. I am not treating the page as a NEWS SITE for the engine. It is a hub and part of the way the moddb site WORKS. If you have an issue, then go to work for them and rewrite their site!

The most current news about engine itself is currently this one:
http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring/new ... ix-release
Replace/remove the direct download links.

I can't, you will have to ask forb. I cannot alter the posts of others.

and more things like this..think for yourself if you want page to stay, do not want to write every small detail.

and more things like this.. yeah no.

before you continue to step by step eat up my entire day. why don't you write out your list of issues then let me go through and tell you what can and cannot be done. I will try and see what I can do but you really really need to hear me on this, the site works a certain way. I cannot change it I can edit certain content areas and that is all.

I'll give an example:

Things knorke wants smoth to do on the moddb spring engine hub:

• *switch the current summary with the blue text and set the summary to the profile page.

[AF]

Its unreasonable to demand the Moddb page lists all the projects related to spring since we dont even have a list ourselves, and it would require smoth create game entries for each and every one of them, something that would be inappropriate and presumptuous of him to do ( imagine he created a profile for one of your games without your knowledge? ).

As for news, if you want that I have you covered, as Ive shown you can filter down a feed to be quite specific

[smoth]

actually I cannot swap the summary for the blue bar:

Summary*

1000 characters remaining; HTML formatting, links and line breaks are not supported - text only

which means no blue bar, no link

[knorke]

Its unreasonable to demand the Moddb page lists all the projects related to spring

Excactly. So have a text above Games list that explains just that.

( imagine he created a profile for one of your games without your knowledge? ).

First off: I never asked for anyone to do that. I asked for people to stop making lists and expect others to maintain them or add themself.
And yes, creating profiles for stuff that is not yours is bad. Which is imo bad about moddb:

They actively encourage users to create profiles for other peoples stuff.
Not just encourage, more like force actually since you *must* fill out the fields. (I remember it might have been voluntary some year ago, not sure)
So at least it is somewhat lucky that "we" have claimed the spring name and not someone random. But still, what a crappy site that forces users to do that.

You don't just link to the page and call it a day. It requires an engine to exist in their system.

The engine profile would just contain a link to spring homepage.
If the only purpose of spring-profile is that games can select an engine in profile, why does does the spring-profile need to contain *anything else* but a link to the spring homepage in every possible place? Why does it need news, why does it need screenshots, why does it need videos, etc if we only care about that games can select engine=spring.
Games could also just select "custom built" which is technically not correct but would be a way to do it without spring-profile. Games usually mention spring anyway:
"The Cursed" is a very unique free realtime-strategy game based on the Spring engine. etc

If someone wants their project on the site, it should be added like every other project there. Don't like it? well too bad.

As written in first post: "Just add your thing" is not really a solution: Moddb is not the only profile of that kind. It forces everyone to keep up with all the places where new spring-profiles are created and then they have to create profiles for their games there too, just to be represented. A huge waste of effort for everyone.
Do not put up "spring places" and then expect everyone to add themself, it does not work. (history has shown)
Forcing people to create profiles everywhere is just as annoying as creating profiles for them.

Or I will do nothing. I am not treating the page as a NEWS SITE for the engine. It is a hub and part of the way the moddb site WORKS. If you have an issue, then go to work for them and rewrite their site!

I guess in this case the spring profile will continue to greet visitors with the announement from a mid-2013 tourney.
Is it really asking too much to have anything else there that is maybe a bit more relevant?

why don't you write out your list of issues then let me go through and tell you what can and cannot be done.

It is YOU who wants the moddb profile. So you should maintain it too! ("you" not as in "you smoth", all the people in moddb group)If others have to write out every little detail for the moddb-people and babysit them through it, then who would be the real maintainers of the site?
I find it really strange that on one hand some people want a moddb site but then on other had do not even want to keep it updated enough to a point so that the last engine-release is not from 3 years ago.

[knorke]

zwzsg:
This installer here:
http://springfiles.com/spring/game-inst ... -installer
Kernel Panic Installer KP 4.6 Spring 95.0

on moddb the newest on is: Kernel Panic 4.4 with Spring 85.0
It seems quite big gap..is that really due to spring problems or oversight?

[smoth]

Seems like you expect the world to make an apple into a steak. Have fun with that.

[knorke]

very constructive reply
I give up. First forb with google+, now smoth with moddb, too much for me.
Imo what you do with these sites is close to trolling/sabotaging whole spring but nobody else seems to be bothered enough to weight in, so carry on. (except from some short posts on first page, but they do not seem to make you think anyway)
"Community Lead" that spring once had and should manage such situations is gone too - nobody will stop you.
enjoy your rotting apple.

[Forboding Angel]

You are the one who actively hurts spring. All your bitching and moaning doesn't help anything. There is a lot going on that you have no idea about, but instead of just stfu and take other's word for it, you buttmad all over the topic.

The worst part is that you don't even understand how these tools that you bitch about even work. As a result, it's impossible to take you even remotely seriously.

Anyway, topic is over. All you've managed to do is buttraeg and piss everyone who is actually productive off.

[klapmongool]

Wow. Guys. Knorke doesn't deserve this. He made a valid point in this topic and all you guys do is act but hurt because you feel he attacked your work/efforts.

[knorke]

There is a lot going on

Not on the part of pages that is visible to public. There it is only years old stuff that sends visitors to outdated things.

Your only arguements that you repeated over and over are "stfu you have no idea" and "I am doing a pretty good job." Both seem pretty weak.

The worst part is that you don't even understand how these tools that you bitch about even work.

I understand how they work because it was explained here.
Last year you were all about moddb and desura, this year it is google+ and stream greenlight.

All you've managed to do is buttraeg and piss everyone who is actually productive off.

I am glad that despite all this you and smoth are not angry at me. :)

[AF]

Smoth cant delete the Moddb engine page
Smoth tried to add a link as you suggested, Moddb wont let him

Lets just agree that it's suboptimal and some things there's nothing that can be done to help


In the meantime, a wiki page that lists all of these web properties with the people responsible for them would be useful.

[FireStorm_]

@Smoth

Seems like you expect the world to make an apple into a steak. Have fun with that.

I must admit this statement puzzles me.
For instance: When you say "the world", do you refer to yourself?
Could you be so kind as to explain the statement to me?

@Forb
Since I see no moderator acting on it, I became uncertain of the meaning about a term you used. So I'll ask politely: What does "stfu" mean?
And I have another question if you don't mind answering it. You used the word productive, so I wonder: How would you define the word Counter-productive, if you are familiar with it?

Also:
I think I strongly agree with the statement klapmongool made just now.

[smoth]

Just because he wants something to be what he wants, that does not mean it exists or is realistically feasible! Yet he cannot understand that just because he wants it all his way

Klap is full of it knorke is being unreasonable!