Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

[smoth]

http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring
Who owns that profile?

I can update any part of it. What needs doing? Moddb HAS to have an engine page for spring. I don't see showing the different mod shots as an issue, even defunct mods show the kind of visuals the engine is capable of.

The moddb site requires an engine to have a page if you want to list that engine as used by your project.

[AF]

I would note that there are social media properties Im responsible for that nobody has mentioned here. Perhaps that is a good thing, but they could have some bearing on whats been said here.

Facebook Group

There is a facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/2258931045/

It's mostly inactive, I have control of the group, and official group policy is to move to:

Facebook Page

https://www.facebook.com/springrtsengine

There is activity on this page, not as much as I would like. The odd comment and some likes. New stuff is posted regularly via the automation.

Twitter

https://twitter.com/SpringRTSNews

Active thanks to the automation, but its setup was mainly opportunistic. Little to no engagement, but not dead.

SpringInfo

SpringInfos automation powers the facebook and twitter presence and stops it from becoming stale. At the moment I haven't the capacity to post to G+, and I've not had the inclination or time to build the necessary tech to automate that ( or fi it would be welcomed/appropriate ).

I have noticed that ZeroK actively uses SpringInfo to tweet ZK news, and I assume this is being done via the RSS feed SpringInfo provides with ZK specific news. Or perhaps thats a part of the plugin that detects these things showing up.

Stuff like that I can expand upon and would be useful for everybody, but I simply don't have the time, and forum threads just aren't suitable for managing the issues are problems that occur. i know there are things Knorke wanted me to do I haven't gotten around to yet, Im not entirely sure what they are but I can guess.

• There are posts that are pulled in as 'pending review' because people mix spring and non-spring stuff that need flagging as irrelevant or published
• Most posts are unclaimed and are assigned to me. If people had accounts I could assign posts to them via automation, only Forboding Angel has done this, which means only his stuff is archived and categorised for easy viewing. Because of this I haven't advertised or exploited these abilities, I could have built a Spring profile with everything from videos/photos/springfiles uploads/new posts/engine commits/etc
• Sometimes Im unable to step in and make changes, I have a job etc, I need help in this regard. Automation is only so good, and I need a bus factor higher than 1.
• There's so much content that I can't surface. Stuff like Smoths junk would be great to have, and Id have it in a separate Dev Journals section, but he's said no, that's fine. Everybody else however has said nothing, and there's so much stuff that goes unreported ( and its the best kind of stuff too =/ ). You want to show that the community is active, the stuff people put in random WIP and buried in the project sub forums is great for that, so long as it's clear it's WIP stuff
• Nobody wants to have editorial access on springinfo. I went as far as offering blogs outright and a site rebuild catered to them, but nobody expressed an interest. Someone said I had the right idea, but thats not really the same thing

So all in all, the news site, the facebook page, and the twitter account, are passively powered by the community simply doing what the community has always done, If I could expand that then we'd have even more relevance on the frontpage, more sections, and more interesting things to look at, but I can only do so much by myself.

[knorke]

Facebook: Again the problem of "trying to represent spring, but it does not work":
In gallery ~35 pictures but only shows 2 games. 30 pictures are from same game.

---
The automatic news on twitter/facebook/SpringInfo all have the same problem: Too much uninteressting "spam."
tl;dr: One can not listen to nice music or have discussion if annoying loud vacuume cleaners drone in same room.

For every interessting post there 20 spammy bad ones.
If a dozen WIP versions of a map get uploaded to springfiles that generates a dozen postings. Nobody wants to read through stuff like this:
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.2
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.3
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.4
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.5
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.5b
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.5b fixed
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.5b fixedredux
(Nothing wrong with speedballs or anyone who uploads multiple version of something in short time, not their fault)
I do not think filling every site with these same automated blubber does any good.
Maybe it "shows activity" but not interessting activities.
Needs slower post frequency to not flood away quality.

Nobody wants to have editorial access on springinfo. I went as far as offering blogs outright and a site rebuild catered to them, but nobody expressed an interest.

When I tried logging in it did not work

I had interesst but already said 2 years that with the spam it is no use.
It was then argued to me that all these things are indeed frontpage worthy. When I sometimes post news on zK forum news thing, they also get copied to newsfeed.
Then I can watch how they stay on the page for 12 hours before spam washes it away, never to be seen again. I do not mind, it was meant for forum anyway and appearing on newsfeed is just side effect. But spend time writing on paper that only gets flushed down the spam toilet, no...

There are posts that are pulled in as 'pending review' because people mix spring and non-spring stuff that need flagging as irrelevant or published

I made seperated youtube thingy in 2012 but year later when I asked why my videos show so long to show, was again told because they have to be manually approved.

[jK]

Facebook: Again the problem of "trying to represent spring, but it does not work":
In gallery ~35 pictures but only shows 2 games. 30 pictures are from same game.

Do we need a `share screenshot` button that uploads to reddit, twitter & facebook?

[knorke]

Do we need a `share screenshot` button that uploads to reddit, twitter & facebook?

?
That would just have effect that whatever project spams most is most visible. Just have some few screenshots of different stuff. Personally do not like if a supposedly general spring page/profile becomes "advertisement plattform" of only few games, it is the same problem as the old "People only see spring as TA."

[smoth]

If a dozen WIP versions of a map get uploaded to springfiles that generates a dozen postings. Nobody wants to read through stuff like this:
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.2
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.3
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.4
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.5
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.5b
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.5b fixed
Springfiles: Speedballsfun 3.5b fixedredux
(Nothing wrong with speedballs or anyone who uploads multiple version of something in short time, not their fault)
I do not think filling every site with these same automated blubber does any good.
Maybe it "shows activity" but not interessting activities.
Needs slower post frequency to not flood away quality.

THen that user is doing springfiles wrong. You can update a file as you upload. ODDS are he didn't delete the old file or CBA to actually go and use the site properly

springfiles.com/finder/1/GRTS

no idea why I have a few orphans but most of my maps were updated with proper versions.

[AF]

Posts in a forum thread
They have to be manually approved because by the time I get around to having time to do things, I have to dig through several pages to get to your post. When I get to them I find 2 feeds. 2 unlabelled feeds, that are just URLs dumped at my doorstep, that I don't know how to categorise or what to do with.

Its pretty much the worst way to contact me about springinfo stuff, and your posts aren't formatted or constructed in a way that I can easily pick up and action, it requires me to read a page after and before the post, and mental work to figure out the context.

Logging in
Login wise, yes my restrictions where very harsh, I lowered them. Forb ran into those restrictions, but rather than post in a forum thread with a very high chance of things being lost, he PM'ed me and the issue was resolved, and steps taken to prevent it in the future.

Your feeds
Also your feeds had issues. The feed I currently use has more content in it than the feeds you gave. I'm happy for you to manage and adjust them yourself, but see above.

SpringInfo and SpringFiles

I agree, your example is spammy. But that doesn't resolve the issue. Lets say I removed SpringFiles, we would then have complaints that only ZeroK or EvolutionRTS ever showed up.

The real problem is quality stuff. It exists yes, but people wont put it in a digestable, accessible format. Sure they've shot themselves in the foot because now their work isn't surfaceable, not just from a "we want to try your game" point of view but a "Hey we need modellers fulltime, if we give you XYZ thousand a year salary will you work for us?", or a "this candidate has hobbies and interests, perhaps we should hire them instead, they're more diverse". This happens, it happened to me, it happened to Forb, it happens to a lot of people.

So quality content that I'm unable to surface because it's not in a processable format:

• Everything to do with Eternal Struggle
• New BAR models and effects
• The vast majority of Picassos work
• Everything Smoth does
• Void/Rebalanced Annihilation/Anything that's released in the game forum that has a forum thread and that's it
• Maps
• MechCommander
• Kernel Panic News
• Metal Factions
• etc

If I had a feed for announcing new downloads/releases for those games, for the screenshots that got posted, or for highlighted forum posts, that'd be brilliant, SpringFiles would be unnecessary.

But I don't, I know Smoth has eventual plans to set something up, but he's busy, but the rest I've heard nothing from. Map wise, it's a forum thread, I cant automate that.

So no, without SpringFiles, a vast amount of stuff that's liked, and gets engagement would never show up. We'd have a slow and painfully stale feed of activity, and things would look a lot deader than they actually are. It'd be great if JJ setup SpringFiles twitter accounts, and SpringFiles facebook pages. Then it could be set apart to one side, but he hasn't.

The Other Side of Quality & Relevance

Part of the automation I set up was categorisation and taxonomies. This I haven't advertised much, but when I pull in a Cursed image from Moddb, it's flagged as being from that game, or when a Zero K video is put up on youtube, it can be flagged as from ZeroK.

This way I can show archives and landing pages tailored to individual games and community members.

The problem here is that for some games I have either no feeds, or very little content. People aren't cooperating to set up that initial stuff, so the data I've collected isn't as impressive as I'd like.

The other side of this, is I can merge all activity related to a game and present an RSS feed.

My plans in the near future

After changing the theme I've decided to install a plugin I use and add some forms, namely:

• News submission form
• Request for editor status/claim a feed for yourself
• I have a new game
• I have a new feed to pull from

[AF]

As a sidenote, I'm happy to start filtering down to specific parts of SpringFiles, or even remove it at all, once I'm happy that I don't have to rely on it to surface a significant amount of what the community does. shouldn't need a file hosters RSS feed to know that there's a new BA release out, that a new game has been put out on the forums, or a new version of a lobby was created, but that's just the way it is.

[AF]

You don't appear to have an account, aside from some throw away accounts, it's just myself and Forboding.

It also seems I DO have the capacity to post to Google+, as well as Path LinkedIn and Tumblr

[smoth]

http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring
Who owns that profile?

I can update any part of it. What needs doing? Moddb HAS to have an engine page for spring. I don't see showing the different mod shots as an issue, even defunct mods show the kind of visuals the engine is capable of.

The moddb site requires an engine to have a page if you want to list that engine as used by your project.

sooooo

[raaar]

problems are:
- outdated information
- information that misrepresents the spring engine or spring games
- useful information drowned in spam
- time-consuming maintenance

possible solutions:
- fewer sites maintained by more community members
- clear and simple standards and conventions for posting content
- broad but different categories for information items, with priorities:
1. new spring engine versions
2. new games and versions
3. new maps
4. community events (get-togethers, tournaments)
5. humour, art display
6. spam

springinfo's entry page could have 6 columns (on for each of the above categories) with lists of items (title, thumbnail pic,summary) which when clicked would lead to the current pages for that category

items for categories 1 through 4 are relatively rare but even they could use some sort of tag that would enable/disable automatic post on spring-related sites and social media


No-one should have to manually read through forums and sites to figure out what to highlight.

if you own a site that highlights spring stuff, ask the corresponding devs to provide adequately "packaged" information items if they want to, don't add them yourself.


Using other social media as a replacement for the forum may also alienate some users. i've played some evo recently and when i wanted to post something on the forum section i gave up as it leads to google+ page for which i don't have account and the layout seemed confusing (forum is tidier).

[FireStorm_]

I advise to read zwzsg's post again.
It illustrates the situation quite nicely, i think.

Then I if you still think a satellite-page in some others company's domain is a good idea, you may want to ask yourself this:

"What is the page supposed to do? what is its ultimate function and its goal?"
(And is it serving that goal? Or perhaps even competing with other sites?)

If I'd invest in maintaining and improving a page, I'd invest in springrts.com, before I'd look anywhere else.
I think the most important thing any promotion-satellite-page page should do is linking to that one: springrts.com
So instead of building another springrts.com somewhere from the ground up, I'd just link to it. (saves time, I think, if nothing else )

(to clarify: I talk about promotional-satalite-pages. not sites with clear supporting alternative function like i.e. a spring-replay-site.)

[AF]

Which is why everything on springinfo redirects to the original source.

There will always be satellite pages, because:

• We cant upload videos and stuff here, hence youtube channels and profiles
• Only posting on springrts.com is a highly ineffective way to market and spread word about your game
• This site and forum is terrible for surfacing new content. Few people have the time to read each and every thread, that day passed several years ago ( I should know, I posted in every thread I could at the time and succeeded for quite a long time )

Re: SpringInfo

6 columns may be too many but I agree, and until the recent theme change, I did have sections on the frontpage for different things. I'm working towards regaining that, and landing pages etc. I had a page dedicated to ZK with information, latest videos, latest images, latest news, etc that I was trying as a testbed.

Individual games can be filtered down e.g.
http://www.springinfo.info/Games/balanced-annihilation/

Humour I have covered, engine releases too, maps I don't ( via springfiles ), games I have partially.

The other side is that I'm unaware of stuff, some projects are hidden deep inside the forum where I may not normally look.

Also, this is the feed minus springfiles:

http://www.springinfo.info/feed/?cat=-19

[FireStorm_]

Are you responding to what I said AF. It seems so to me.
Firing bullet-points at me? I'll try to deflect them.

1
I tried to make a distinction between promotional-pages and supporting-functional-sites.
I think (in example) a so called social-media-page falls into the first category, and you-tube in the second one.

2
I think people who made a game should market it themselves in their own chosen way, if they wish to do so.

3
I don't get this point. The first half is a repetition of point2, and the second half seems to be about you having lots of opinions without taking the time to read up on the subject or current affairs. I'm not trying to be mean: I have no trouble reading this whole tread.

To summarise my thought on the subject:
I think Linking is more time efficient (and can be just as effective) than rebuilding. Also I think it better to promote a single game then the engine as a whole.
And if you don't agree: Why not work to improve Springrts.com?

[AF]

I tried, it failed, that subject has been talked about extensively elsewhere on these forums so I wont go into it.

SpringInfo is at the end of the day a news site, to help surface and collate what's happening in the community. I'm pretty happy for people to build their own sites for their own games, like Forb & Evo or the ZK site have done, that's great, we should have more of that.

If there's anything I can do to increase the number of active game specific sites, that'd be brilliant. It also means I have more RSS feeds to tweet/fb post/put on the springrts.com frontpage/organise and curate.

I'd be even more thrilled if people wanted to write posts themselves and have real human produced content directly.


If anyone is interested in microsites, dev journals, or any other kind of small site ( maybe even just a gallery a download button and a brief paragraph explaining what the game was and where to find the forums ) let me know

[smoth]

yo dawg, I heard you like talking rather than working. I have been asking repeatedly what knorke wants specifically about the moddb page. He is either purposefully ignoring my posts or has me on foes list. Whatever, all I wanted was a specific thing he needed for the moddb page. Nothing. I'll use the time I have been using on reading his posts to do something else.

geeze.

[FireStorm_]

@AF
If I had a game ready I might take you up on your offer. Honestly not probably, because I think I won't have a game ready for quite a long time to come.
(still working on BAR, but stuff about that is behe's call)

@Smoth
As far as I can tell he only asked who owns that profile.

[knorke]

smoth:
It is forum, not chat..sometimes one has to wait a day for reply especially with so many people posting.

on moddb:
In first post is example from moddb and 3 year old engine.
Most what is written in posts about other pages apllies to moddb, too.

I think most things should be obvious to site maintainer on its own but since you want details:
The latest comment on spring's moddb is somebody asking:
Is it discontinued or something?
This is also the impression moddb profile gives about spring.

Look at http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring/games
and compare it with http://springrts.com/wiki/Games
Mostly dead projects, even some old mappack from years ago with description "DEAD PLEASE DELETE IT!"
Not sure how much controll there is about the list, maybe it is created automatically from games that select spring as engine in their profile?
There should still be some sort of note that these projects on the list are not everything and that they are for large part outdated/canceld.

On http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring/downloads the ONLY up-to-date download is The Cursed installer.
I guess technically something like the Merc Squad installer from 2009 would still work for single player. But I think the idea of spring on moddb is to introduce people to current spring, not some old games that will not work online and where the included lobby is so old it can not update either.
imo:
Since for such long time nobody made update to site, this is imo one site that should be in some basic "just-link-to-springrts.com" mode.
How excactly that would look like is up to people who created the moddb and are active there.

Make clear in description that nobody is actively using moddb and that the profile is just there to "spread spring's name" but that there will be no support on this site and all content on site should be considered as not-current.

[smoth]

smoth:
It is forum, not chat..sometimes one has to wait a day for reply especially with so many people posting.

so this post:

Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:32 am

nice time warp
Why do you have to start the post with some condescending thing. I am aware of this place and that it is not a chat. I know you don't like everyone else's posting style but at least be aware of time spans!

on moddb:
In first post is example from moddb and 3 year old engine.
Most what is written in posts about other pages apllies to moddb, too.

I think most things should be obvious to site maintainer on its own but since you want details:
The latest comment on spring's moddb is somebody asking:
Is it discontinued or something?
This is also the impression moddb profile gives about spring.

Deleted the comment as it is a GUEST account I could not contact the poster. Before I just laughed at him but whatever. People don't use a 3rd party site to really know if the project is dead. Odds are it was some dumbass who thought the page was posting to a specific project.

Look at http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring/games
and compare it with http://springrts.com/wiki/Games
Mostly dead projects, even some old mappack from years ago with description "DEAD PLEASE DELETE IT!"

Not sure how much control there is about the list, maybe it is created automatically from games that select spring as engine in their profile?

There are TONS of dead projects on moddb. As a person who maintains the engine page, I cannot do anything about what is listed beyond contacting the site admins. Even still, what is the problem with having older projects listed? maybe some people like to look at the old history!

old map pack: Link me and I will delete it if I can.

Any project on moddb can claim spring as it's engine. So I cannot just remove projects from it as being in control of that page does not give me control of the child pages linked to it. I am happy this isn't the case.

On http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring/downloads the ONLY up-to-date download is The Cursed installer.
I guess technically something like the Merc Squad installer from 2009 would still work for single player. But I think the idea of spring on moddb is to introduce people to current spring, not some old games that will not work online and where the included lobby is so old it can not update either.

Nope the page exists to have a central link for all projects using the engine. If the project files are several years old and uploaded there, I cannot/should not delete them. Some author may have that as his only back up etc. It isn't a page to introduce anyone to anything. Just a page that is "this is the engine."

imo:
Since for such long time nobody made update to site, this is imo one site that should be in some basic "just-link-to-springrts.com" mode.
How excactly that would look like is up to people who created the moddb and are active there.

That isn't how moddb works. if there is a link on the description I could update it but this page acts as a way to create a relationship for all existing and defunct projects. Even shut down projects are kept around because people will ask, what happened to X.. at which point they can go read on the page of X.

Make clear in description that nobody is actively using moddb and that the profile is just there to "spread spring's name" but that there will be no support on this site and all content on site should be considered as not-current.

I actively use moddb. Moddb shares it's database with indiedb which uses desura. Forb uses desura. When gundam was around, I updated THAT page more than I posted on here. Once my RTS core stuff gets to the point where I have actual gameplay, expect the same!

so to summarize:

• *Moddb/indiedb are the same page, they are needed for desura.
  
  *There are tons of projects listed, either in progress or dead. They serve as an archive.
  
  *the engine page is no there to "introduce" you use the page to go there and see associated projects. Don't confuse it with any sort of "welcome to spring" thing. It is just a hub.
  
  *there are people who use the site. I am one who once I am active again make heavy use. Even when NOT using the site actively. I use it to browse other projects.

[knorke]

Sometimes one has to wait a day, sometimes one has to wait a day, 23 hours and 5 minutes. still ok I think...

Deleting the comment that asked a year ago if the project is still active does not really fix anything: just hides some symptons. You were of course not supposed to contact some anonymous guest from a year ago. Just maintain the site so that such questions do not get raised.

old map pack: Link me and I will delete it if I can.

I did, I wrote it is here on this list: http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring/games ( http://www.moddb.com/games/my-spring-map-pack )
But tbh if anyone really cared about that page or anyone maintained it someone would have noticed such things earlier, not after 3 years.

If contacting admins is needed, then do that. If that is too much hassle or does not work, then it is another example why we should not plop spring profiles on every other site.

Even still, what is the problem with having older projects listed?

You write "the page exists to have a central link for all projects using the engine."
I think if almost only old defunctional projects are listed it goes against that idea:
Instead of the claimed "all projects" it really is "a few old projects."

Maybe deleting old games is not needed, it would open doors for "what project is worthy to be listed" policy, would suck too.
Still:
I do not see what is wrong with a note that says that more stuff can be found on springrts.com and that the list is incomplete?
If you want then leave the old entries as archive or whatever, - but make sure it looks like an archive and not a graveyard; and that life continues in another place.