Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media - Page 2

Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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knorke
Posts: 7971
Joined: 22 Feb 2006, 01:02

Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by knorke »

The reason is says that is because anyone can create a community.
Excactly. What makes this page the official one?
Should that not be decided by more than one person, and if there is to be a official anything, should it not follow the same rules as springrts.com?
Not linking to *A is for good reasons
What were the reasons not to link Kernel Panic, The Cursed, Spring Tanks, etc for the last two years?
What is the reason for still not linking Imerial Winter?
Bad social media profile? Just because you don't see spring interacting with people doesn't mean that it isn't happening.
My reasons why it is bad were different ones. Nowhere did I write "There is not enough interacting!!123" :roll:
You can poo poo SEO all you want.
I did this where excactly?
Maybe I will start now:
SEO is not the only (or even most important) purpose of a web site or profile, especially not for social media.
If you only care for SEO over useful content then you are... spam.
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Funkencool
Posts: 542
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by Funkencool »

knorke wrote:Excactly. What makes this page the official one?
Should that not be decided by more than one person, and if there is to be a official anything, should it not follow the same rules as springrts.com?
I'm pretty sure forboding was not the only one involved, this page is at the very least official because this is an open source community and no one else has taken the time to make one.

Plus did you forget this
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
knorke wrote: Do not try to recreate things that already exist on springrts.com, because in past it has always failed and after short time it becomes outdated.
It probably only has those games listed because someone believed those had the most 'eye-candy' value or interest.
Yeah maybe it needs a few changes, but I'm sure suggestions would get in much better than implications.
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FireStorm_
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by FireStorm_ »

Call it "Forbs spring fan page" or something.
I think this would be fair.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by Forboding Angel »

knorke wrote:
The reason is says that is because anyone can create a community.
Excactly. What makes this page the official one?
Should that not be decided by more than one person, and if there is to be a official anything, should it not follow the same rules as springrts.com?
It is official because it is linked (linked does not mean url). It also has a following.

There is a lot that you don't see knorke. You are not going to tear down everything that has been built just because you like to buttmad all over the forums.

So spring tanks wasn't linked, OH. MY. GOD.! You could have simply requested if it was that big of a deal. It's not like spring tanks has a website (you'll notice that all the games originally listed actually had websites).
knorke wrote: Should that not be decided by more than one person...
Go get bent. Take your hyperbole with you. You once again demonstrate that you don't know anything about what is going on.

@funkencool
Thank you. Maybe you can get things through his meter-thick skull.
BaNa
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Joined: 09 Sep 2007, 21:05

Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by BaNa »

wow guys TLDR but who cares about a G+ page? noone uses G+. no one.
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FireStorm_
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009, 16:09

Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by FireStorm_ »

Knorke doesn't seem mad to me.
I think he makes well-thought-trough points.

One of which I think is:
If some one wants to promote their game (for instance spring tanks, or EvoRTS ) this person should dedicate a page to that game.

And as a bonus I'm throwing in a logical riddle, just for fun:
If a knoke might be upset about a game not being on a page... And he didn't express being upset by asking to be on that page... Then how do can one know a knoke was upset in the first place?
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by PicassoCT »

If one posts in the -------, does he make a pound?

But yeah, its not just about the attention not making money on the streets. Its about erecting unmaintainable ghost-towns, who scare off potential players, by looking like the unmaintained ghost towns the industry creates for there games when they cease to be intersting three months after release.
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knorke
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by knorke »

Funkencool wrote:
knorke wrote:Plus did you forget this
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
knorke wrote: Do not try to recreate things that already exist on springrts.com, because in past it has always failed and after short time it becomes outdated.

Yeah maybe it needs a few changes, but I'm sure suggestions would get in much better than implications.
I did not forget this, maybe you misunderstood what I wrote. It was never my intention that the list on google+ should be completed. In fact my suggestion was to remove it entirely because it would eventually just outdate again.
Already in first post I wrote "Just fixing some links now will not be enough, they would just outdate in little time, the problem is deeper: [...]"
It probably only has those games listed because someone believed those had the most 'eye-candy' value or interest.
I find it worrying, wrong and disrespectful to mod makers that someone would judge things like that on a page that is supposed to represent spring.

---
Forboding Angel wrote:So spring tanks wasn't linked, OH. MY. GOD.! You could have simply requested if it was that big of a deal. It's not like spring tanks has a website (you'll notice that all the games originally listed actually had websites).
Out of the 9 non-TA games on http://springrts.com/wiki/Games you took 4. Four out of nine.
So do not try to make it look like as if I was just complaining about my mod.
Go get bent. Take your hyperbole with you. You once again demonstrate that you don't know anything about what is going on.
I think this "discussion" is over: Come back when you have anything else to say but insults.
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Silentwings
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by Silentwings »

I think this "discussion" is over: Come back when you have anything else to say but insults.
This. Could someone split out all that google+ whatever into its own thread? There was a useful discussion that could have happened instead.

Side Point: Afaik all 'BA' pages that link in some way to spring are now being maintained. Thanks for prodding us into sorting this, knorke.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by zwzsg »

Forb is hopeless. However, while he decidely won't help with the situation, he at least provides a very typical exemple of why it happens in the first place:
  • Spring fan (Y) finds a new Web 2.0 thingy (X): Moddb, Greenlight, G+, Facebook, Reddit, ...
  • Y dabbles in X and finds it the best thing ever
  • Y gets convinced Spring presence in X is imperative: X has billions of hits hourly! X is bestest because it has content-generated network! Everybody but you is on X!
  • Instead of merely posting a thread "please bring Spring to X", Y decide to go forth and create a Spring landing page on X himself.
  • Y reasons that, once he's done the hard work of filling the creation form, uploading a 7 year old logo and copy paste an intro blurb about Spring, all he'd have to do is to ceremoniously hand the key of Spring-page-on-X to the Spring officials, who'll then take over the meager job of updating it daily.

    So Y has no qualm calling it "Spring official page", since that's what it's meant to become. And anyway every other Spring presence on the internet will be dwarfed by the shining behemoth that is X.
  • After 'nouncing it, Y is a little surprised by the lack of reaction.
  • Well, maybe all is needed is a little pushing and leading by exemple. So Y add a couple extra pages to Spring-on-X, and publish a few news. Sure they're not very good (Y is aware of not being the best qualified for this job), but they're not meant to stay, they're just to show how incredibly easy it is to advertise Spring and Spring projects on X.
  • So, instead of forever thanking Y for opening their eyes on the greatness of X, other Spring people actually dare criticize Y initiative to put Spring on X? How dare they, the ungrateful idiots! Well, doesn't matter, Y will push Spring presence on X alone if he must, the opportunity is just too crucial to miss.
  • Since Y is nearly alone to write for Spring-on-X, that his bias show is inescapable. If people are not happy with it, well, their fault for not helping with Spring-on-X
  • After a couple years, X interests drift away for Spring, and Spring-on-X page remains as it was when last touched.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by PicassoCT »

Wasnt there a site, that basically updated itself, by reading from springrts?
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Funkencool
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by Funkencool »

I'm partially to blame on this, but this has gone pretty far off-point I'd say.
I think we can all agree on most points, but the question knorke raised is;
What to do with these pages?

Maybe for future ones (or even fixing previous ones) a template or necessities should be noted.
Such as:
  • - No direct hosting(of engine), downloads must link to spring wiki/download page.
    - It must be implied the majority of the community/help is here, at springrts.com
    - The website does NOT represent the spring community as a whole
Regardless who will get in touch with the old unmaintained pages maintainers?
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by PicassoCT »

Saddle the lawyers! We ride at dawn..
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smoth
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by smoth »

Can someone summarize? I don't care to read these sort of community mandates without first getting pissed because the person has been given no authority to tell me what to do.

I read the first post and halfway through thought, "that's nice but that is you opinion." I only see the rest of the thread as a bunch of drama, rage and people trying to dictate the behaviors of others!

So is there anything really that I should care about/personally can do to help act on rather than just rage and bullshit about because I would rather do something productive!
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knorke
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by knorke »

smoth wrote:I would rather do something productive!
The link to spring 1944 webpage on your site is broken, you could fix it.

tl;dr of thread: The same as above, on larger scale and more general.
---
Funkencool wrote:Maybe for future ones (or even fixing previous ones) a template or necessities should be noted.
Such as:
- No direct hosting(of engine), downloads must link to spring wiki/download page.
- It must be implied the majority of the community/help is here, at springrts.com
- The website does NOT represent the spring community as a whole
Yes, that sounds good.
Might want to add:
-Multiple people should have the login details. So that one does not end up locked out.
-Similiar "no direct hosting" also goes for "no direct linking", for example in comments. So not like "grab the install file from blablabla_spring_v55.3.exe "
On pages with few posts such a comment meant for short-time might be visible for a long time and who know show many people click it years later?


Other pages:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Category:Lua_in_SpringRTS
An attempt a documenting scripting/modding spring. Anyone can edit on wikibooks afaik. Someone spent time there so I feel bad about just deleting it. But it can not stay like that either..

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Springrts
This one is ok: It does not try to be anything that it can not be.
Just group for spring people on game, no overzealous attempts at describing spring or its games. The "replays" link is to old page though but not so important.

http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring
Who owns that profile?
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smoth
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by smoth »

The entire site is being overhauled. I am culling an assload of post remnants from when I nuked 200k posts out of my site.

*edits* woot, culled all the orphaned topics!
knorke wrote: http://www.moddb.com/engines/spring
Who owns that profile?
I can update any part of it. What needs doing? Moddb HAS to have an engine page for spring. I don't see showing the different mod shots as an issue, even defunct mods show the kind of visuals the engine is capable of.

The moddb site requires an engine to have a page if you want to list that engine as used by your project.
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Pithikos
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by Pithikos »

I received this message from Knorke and I thought I'll reply here:
knorke wrote:Huhu
I was looking at same spring-related pages, especially older ones and what to do with them.
So came across:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lua_in_SpringRTS
It seems to be from written by you in 2010 mostly.
Since then spring wiki has improved lots so not sure if it is still needed? It seems to have stopped somewhere mid-work too...do you still have plans for it?
In its current state it is more confussing than helpful I fear. :?
Since it also "disattracts" a bit from spring wiki where some of the information that is missing on wikibooks can be found.
Hope this message does not offend you!

Can also reply in this related thread if you want:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 20#p554804
(reading first post and linked one should be enough, rest is uninteressting blabla)
greets
The reason I made that wiki can be followed on this thread.

Personally there are many things that I don't like in the current wiki:
  • Lack of Lua syntax highlighting
  • Crazy colors (red makes my eyes bleed)
  • Lack of white space (many parts of the documentation is just clutters stuck to each other)
  • Organisation (takes me quite some time to figure out where to look for a simple thing)
  • No central place to see all the callins/callouts as a list
  • There's no filtering of callins/callouts (and it doesn't look like it can be implemented either)
So as most of the (conservative) people here got annoyed when I tried to edit the springrts wiki, I took it in solo. That's the background behind how I started with the wikibook.

Now, Knorke, I don't mind to delete my work but only if there existed something that already full-fills those points. Some people have been mingling with the engine etc. for years and are used to how the springrts wiki is now. They know where to look when they have to create a widget. For a new-comer that is not the case in my opinion. Now, that I received your message, I checked the wiki (after 2-3 years interval) and I can say that it looks like chaos to me as it did when I tried to make my first widget. Probably you and others can't see it because you are more active with Spring than me but if you want to reach other people than the devs and generally people accustomed with the engine, then I think the wikibook is much more organized and easy to digest.

Actually lately I thought of creating 1-2 widgets, but just the thinking of spending hours just to find out how to do simple things, stops me from doing so.

I don't get though why you would want to delete it. The only problem might be that some functions are outdated. Then just deleting those should be fine. At current state I don't plan on continuing with it, but someone else might in the future..
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by FLOZi »

Better to create such pages in your user area on the wiki and work with other editors (basically just me, knorke, jk and abma currently) to integrate it with the current pages.

Colours are changeable.

Syntax highlighting would be neat.

Lobby for them in Spring wiki instead of making random page elsewhere noone knows about. :(

N.B. If we had MediaWiki 1.21 or later we would have syntax highlighting. Sadly we currently have only 1.19.
I checked the wiki (after 2-3 years interval) and I can say that it looks like chaos to me as it did when I tried to make my first widget.
:cry:

Image
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knorke
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Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by knorke »

Think details about wiki would be its own thread, so only in general:
spring wiki is of course not perfect and there are some structures that were set years ago and are not really best. Much could be done better, I have ideas of my own butt too:
question is:
a) Is it realistically feasible, will it be finished in reasonable time?
b) Is it *that much* better?
c) Will it create lots of work afterwards?
And new structure like "have each funtion on its own page" or "Lets move whole wiki to wikibooks" might have advantages but do not meet that...
The only problem might be that some functions are outdated.
Most important about documentation is that it is correct&complete.
It must be reliable. If one has to double-check everything read on docu then it is almost useless.
Especially with lua..it would be annoying to find out one was using an older docu where all the parameters are shifted or whatever. Or find out after some time there exists a function that one did could have needed but did not know about.
And thought of going back to a wiki in state of 3 years ago to check everything and update :?
So as most of the (conservative) people here got annoyed when I tried to edit the springrts wiki, I took it in solo.
Looking at thread it seems like problem was you tried out things on existing pages instead of doing it on same test page/sandbox.
klapmongool
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 13:19

Re: Unofficial spring pages / profiles on social media

Post by klapmongool »

Knorke, I feel your pain :)

Good luck!
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