In advance: Many apologies if there is a (non-deprecated) guide for this around and I'm just blithely waltzing by it, but I've been up and down the wiki, and the newest strat guide I can find on the web that discusses how to play Spring-based *A games is on balancedannihilation.org, and even that seems a bit old.
However, here's my question: I am an old SupCom player, so I know a bit about how "economies by Chris Taylor" function, but obviously Spring is a bit different. I've read, both on the site here and on BA's website that it's good to be stalling mass and bad to be stalling energy (or at least it's worse to be stalling energy than mass). And the maps seem to facilitate this, with at least T1 mexes producing much lower output than they do in SupCom. The problem I run into is when playing against the AI, somehow they manage to do things faster than I do, even without a bonus, and I'm steamrolled before I can even get my army up and running. My question is why?
*A games econ help?
Moderator: Moderators
-
klapmongool
- Posts: 843
- Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 13:19
Re: *A games econ help?
Could be a range of reasons, without a replay we don't know exactly why. Most probable causes are:Cmdr_Shaffer wrote:In advance: Many apologies if there is a (non-deprecated) guide for this around and I'm just blithely waltzing by it, but I've been up and down the wiki, and the newest strat guide I can find on the web that discusses how to play Spring-based *A games is on balancedannihilation.org, and even that seems a bit old.
However, here's my question: I am an old SupCom player, so I know a bit about how "economies by Chris Taylor" function, but obviously Spring is a bit different. I've read, both on the site here and on BA's website that it's good to be stalling mass and bad to be stalling energy (or at least it's worse to be stalling energy than mass). And the maps seem to facilitate this, with at least T1 mexes producing much lower output than they do in SupCom. The problem I run into is when playing against the AI, somehow they manage to do things faster than I do, even without a bonus, and I'm steamrolled before I can even get my army up and running. My question is why?
You don't expand fast enough: after doing your start mexes, some winds or solars and your lab you should be expanding all over the map to get as many mexes as you can.
You spend too much on stuff you don't need: maybe you make useless units, multiple labs, too much defense or too many solars (it is hard to make too many winds).
Spectate a couple of smaller multiplayer games; 1v1 - 3v3 to see what is a good approach. If there are no games running just pick some from replays.springrts.com.
Good luck!
-
Cmdr_Shaffer
- Posts: 28
- Joined: 19 Aug 2013, 06:20
Re: *A games econ help?
Too many solars? Hmm--that sounds like it--I didn't know that was bad. Why is there such a thing as "too many solars?" Not enough power for the cost?
-
Silentwings
- Posts: 3720
- Joined: 25 Oct 2008, 00:23
Re: *A games econ help?
there is this http://balancedannihilation.org/strateg ... uidelines/ but i don't know if its what you're looking for or not.
I sugges trying to build just one, or as few as possible, things at once - and expand to grab space and metal production quickly at the start. Only make enough e production to match what labs needs for your current metal input.
I sugges trying to build just one, or as few as possible, things at once - and expand to grab space and metal production quickly at the start. Only make enough e production to match what labs needs for your current metal input.
-
Google_Frog
- Moderator
- Posts: 2464
- Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 09:24
Re: *A games econ help?
About half of this http://zero-k.info/Wiki/EconomyGuide is relevant to *A but the trick is knowing which half.
Re: *A games econ help?
Have you watched your own replays and just tried to duplicate the AI's build order?
haven't played BA in a while but shouldn't there be some pretty standard build-orders (You know like: wind, mex, wind, mex, kbot-lab, con, wind, mex, wind, mex, solar ... or something like that)...
haven't played BA in a while but shouldn't there be some pretty standard build-orders (You know like: wind, mex, wind, mex, kbot-lab, con, wind, mex, wind, mex, solar ... or something like that)...
Re: *A games econ help?
Rules of thumb... probably not the best numbers, but you get the idea:
Try to have your E hover around 50-80% of your e-storage (1000 at the beginning, build an e-storage after some minutes). If you have more than 100% it means you're venting it into the atmosphere.
When your production makes your E drop below 30% -> build E-income.
When (wind-min + wind-max) / 2 >= 10 : build winds.
If you rely on wind alone, you should build an e-storage after your 10th wind, to buffer for low-wind-situations. If you plan to rely on wind, you may still build a solar 1st, because an e-storage at the beginning is to expensive.
Try to never build metal makers. (Only with massive wind farms.)
You only need nanos, when you cannot spend your M.
Watch your replays.
Try to have your E hover around 50-80% of your e-storage (1000 at the beginning, build an e-storage after some minutes). If you have more than 100% it means you're venting it into the atmosphere.
When your production makes your E drop below 30% -> build E-income.
When (wind-min + wind-max) / 2 >= 10 : build winds.
If you rely on wind alone, you should build an e-storage after your 10th wind, to buffer for low-wind-situations. If you plan to rely on wind, you may still build a solar 1st, because an e-storage at the beginning is to expensive.
Try to never build metal makers. (Only with massive wind farms.)
You only need nanos, when you cannot spend your M.
Watch your replays.
Re: *A games econ help?
Having played a fair bit of Forged Alliance recently, I would suggest that a fundamental difference is the lead/return on metal/mass extractors.
In comparison to supcom, *A mexes are very cheap, and don't require any downtime or build power investment to achieve efficiency (a la storage surround/upgrade).
Mexes in *A are easy come easy go- you want to be rushing to cap every single mex point you can- they pay for themselves much faster than in SupCom.
The main underlying factor is aggression- SupCom favours a much more defensive, economy intensive playstyle. When playing *A you should be much more expansionist and aggressive that you would in supcom- units move much faster, and tier 1 units are much more lethal.
In comparison to supcom, *A mexes are very cheap, and don't require any downtime or build power investment to achieve efficiency (a la storage surround/upgrade).
Mexes in *A are easy come easy go- you want to be rushing to cap every single mex point you can- they pay for themselves much faster than in SupCom.
The main underlying factor is aggression- SupCom favours a much more defensive, economy intensive playstyle. When playing *A you should be much more expansionist and aggressive that you would in supcom- units move much faster, and tier 1 units are much more lethal.