Ban the autohosts from spring

Ban the autohosts from spring

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
jj
Posts: 273
Joined: 01 Apr 2006, 19:03

Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by jj »

I would suggest to ban all the autohosts from spring's main server.

Here is why i suggest this:
  • Maps are choosen by democracy, not by people's unique taste
  • Settings are choosed by democracy, not by people's unique taste
  • Most of the time only a few popular maps are played because of this system
  • Spring is getting less and less players because of this democracy crap
  • Spring isn't for the masses, but this system is ruled by the masses, that simply does not exits and that's why it fails.
  • The great diversity of maps and games won't be discovered because of this democracy system
  • Democracy kills Spring
Please answer the poll at springfiles.com
Last edited by jj on 16 Dec 2011, 23:26, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
scifi
Posts: 848
Joined: 10 May 2009, 12:27

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by scifi »

I doubt it will ever get implemented ;/.

So what are you proposing to replace autohosts ? Relay Hosts only ??.
User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22309
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by smoth »

<token objection post>
don't ban autohosts, for smaller games it is really hard for starting players to host and this makes it easier.

Planet wars uses them, leave it alone
</token objection post>


go ahead and ban the >9000 ba autohosts, unless an autohost has players in it there is NO reason for 10 other ba autohosts.
User avatar
PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10378
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by PicassoCT »

actually there is something to it.
It actually would help, even just to hide them. Not ban them but hide them, so nubs can find them and get into the trap.
User avatar
jj
Posts: 273
Joined: 01 Apr 2006, 19:03

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by jj »

scifi wrote:I doubt it will ever get implemented ;/.

So what are you proposing to replace autohosts ? Relay Hosts only ??.
No, ban them all, a good host should at least be able to setup his router correctly.
User avatar
scifi
Posts: 848
Joined: 10 May 2009, 12:27

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by scifi »

PicassoCT wrote:actually there is something to it.
It actually would help, even just to hide them. Not ban them but hide them, so nubs can find them and get into the trap.
Evo rts already filters BA autohosts, in the instalation provided trou desura.

So nubs dont see BA autohosts when they join.....

But filters arent realy the solution.
User avatar
PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10378
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by PicassoCT »

No, thats a bad idea. Open Source comes from open, and the easier something is to use, the more open it actually is, even to low-tech people.

But you are right on the voting thing encouraging conformity, at least, it would help if authost only could host fixxed mapcycles.

Its one of the most ironic things that although we have astonishing maps, they never get played. Something has to be done about it. We cant let new user make a timewarp, just because the badsd crowd likes to hide behind strong players.
User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22309
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by smoth »

jj wrote:
scifi wrote:I doubt it will ever get implemented ;/.

So what are you proposing to replace autohosts ? Relay Hosts only ??.
No, ban them all, a good host should at least be able to setup his router correctly.
you are kidding right?
User avatar
jj
Posts: 273
Joined: 01 Apr 2006, 19:03

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by jj »

Ok, at least the automated hosts should be banned, not the relay hosts.

I'm pointing at the democracy system of autohosts.
User avatar
knorke
Posts: 7971
Joined: 22 Feb 2006, 01:02

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by knorke »

jj wrote:
scifi wrote:I doubt it will ever get implemented ;/.

So what are you proposing to replace autohosts ? Relay Hosts only ??.
No, ban them all, a good host should at least be able to setup his router correctly.
+1
If a player does not know that, he likely is also too poor to buy a decent computer to play. An iphone costs what, maybe $300 if you only get the apps you need. But lack of knowledge and poverty often go hand in hand, especially in the US where most taspring players come from. democrats (especially obama) are really ruining it for everybody.
User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22309
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by smoth »

Ok, lets take a step back...

1) Planetwars uses the autohosts to record stats for that. There is the tournament servers and the leveling servers. Players actively bounce in these.

2) I do agree that the glut of BA autohosts servers is not good.

3) I do agree that players can just LOL BACK TO DSD the server is bad. Maybe a solution is to have servers where they use map rotations like normal fps dedicated hosts do?

4) just because it negatively effects one project doesn't mean all others should have to suffer. If it is an issue with BA fine, then go after ba. Gundam has 1 Autohost, just 1.

5) some people are behind university networks where they cannot host for obvious reasons, college kids have a lot of time we need them.
User avatar
PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10378
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by PicassoCT »

still his main-point stands:

The maps we play on, are a fucking insult to the eye. And eyecandy is what sells especially on first contact. (I hate to state that, but buthurt as moddev asside, this is just true).

So it makes a difference, if the first big game i join plays on something behe, forb or any other advanced mapper produced or if i set out to defend bad vomit & diarroeh country. Of all the awesome IceXuick did or hunterw, its this freakin insult thats got to stick. Ban it, the comunity cant choose worser. Its basically speedmetall in slowmo and mud

Also:
@College Kids having time: Were? When? Am i the only one having no time travell device?
User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22309
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by smoth »

PicassoCT wrote:still his main-point stands:

The maps we play on, are a fucking insult to the eye. And eyecandy is what sells especially on first contact. (I hate to state that, but buthurt as moddev asside, this is just true).
funny because GRTS is northern mountains..
dansan
Server Owner & Developer
Posts: 1203
Joined: 29 May 2010, 23:40

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by dansan »

There is something positive about popular maps: if you already have played on a map, you can concentrate more on trying out a new tactic, than on plain surviving / using your fav. standard technique.
Also: sometimes you want a rematch - that should be on the same map.
Also: sometimes you get a new map, and it's nice, and you want to play it again, because you feel there is more to learn about it. Given - for this to happen you must actually play a new map - which happens just not often enough.

So my proposition is a compromise: get a rule into the autohosts that makes them allow the same map max. 3 times per 10 map cycles. This allows for rematches and all that I wrote above, but at the same time encourages more cycling.

BTW: IMO something makes spads prioritize popular maps. The hosts of vbs and fabrice have ~1400 maps, but if you manually cycle with "!nextmap" 90% of the time you'll hit one of the 20 most popular maps.

BTW2: atm map cycling is not very popular, because unitsync-reload doesn't work in sl :(
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scifi
Posts: 848
Joined: 10 May 2009, 12:27

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by scifi »

So my proposition is a compromise: get a rule into the autohosts that makes them allow the same map max. 3 times per 10 map cycles. This allows for rematches and all that I wrote above, but at the same time encourages more cycling.
Not a bad idea, but still i can bet that someone would relay Host DsD , bringing this system down.

Its a matter of leading people to the rigth choices, witch is hard to do.
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very_bad_soldier
Posts: 1390
Joined: 20 Feb 2007, 01:10

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by very_bad_soldier »

dansan wrote: BTW: IMO something makes spads prioritize popular maps. The hosts of vbs and fabrice have ~1400 maps, but if you manually cycle with "!nextmap" 90% of the time you'll hit one of the 20 most popular maps.
There is a list of about 20 maps I like and which I think they can be played with 12 players nicely. These maps get cycled. Also when you use "!nextmap". If you want to play a map thats not in the cycle you can still votemap it.
To be honest, 85% of that 1400 maps are a bit crappy. I doubt it is a good idea to pick a random map from the 1400.
BaNa
Posts: 1562
Joined: 09 Sep 2007, 21:05

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by BaNa »

ffs all we need are more lobbywide mods who can, true to their name, moderate games. They already have highest rights on autohosts. When I play on teh autohost (rare as fuck, should be *used to play*), I could just !boss myself and cycle good maps and KEEP TEAMSIZE CONSTANT, without !vote spam. Strangely, we still had enough players and specs.

More actively maintained autohosts are what we need. Maybe make it so that someone with mod rights has to be in the battle room for the autohost to become visible to others?
Pako
Posts: 174
Joined: 12 Jul 2009, 18:57

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by Pako »

I think the problem is these autohost lords who just want their autohost to be popular, but more of admin and moderator failing maybe in other topics.

Autohost democracy is a fail, it is similar to this hilarious US democracy system killing most of the real will of people and what is left is just an illusion.
Examples:
-killing 100000 Iraqians is accetable because only 5000 usfags got killed
-killing Spring is acceptable as long as people get their BADSD fix

This !votemap system is a good exapmle killing the proposing of next maps. Votemap locks all voting for a minute and interface is typing into a chat.

Which would be better:

Retard1> !map DSD
Player1> !vote 2
Player2> !vote 1
*vote failed
Player1> !map awesomeMap
Player2> !vote 1
*vote expired
After 60 seconds map is not changed and no-one will try to change it again, until just before the game would be starting and someone wants free votes because players think it is a !spec vote.

player1> this is shit map
player2> yeah change to DSD
plaer3> hell no
*map changed to Tabula 2
player4> change to awesome new map
*map changed to awesomeMap
After 20 seconds map is changed and probably played multiple times if it is good.

Autohost owners are generally too afraid to force-change the map when playing themself, because they don't want to piss off anyone feeling an admin is abusing his powers, to prevent their autohost becoming unpopular.

Solution could be something like Springie !spawn and make a player always start the host. Then all empty/idle autohosts could be removed and soon there will be enough people who learned to start hosting. Also make it so that when the original host leaves, the highest rank will be the new game owner and the host wont die until empty.

When the host is a player he has more context of how players feel, like after a long DSD battle he would change to a faster map like CCR or to a hilly KBot map.

Players would have still a good democracy because they can see which player is hosting or remember battle description where they had fun, and autohost commands could work too.

Autohost lords could still host their servers and moderate in them but the player who spawned the game is also the game owner.

Also is map making stalled? Feels like there always have been around 2000 maps and only a hundred made last year. Maybe because a map maker can't test his new map on an autohost and is left trying to host his own game and advertise it.
User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22309
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by smoth »

Pako wrote:Also is map making stalled? Feels like there always have been around 2000 maps and only a hundred made last year. Maybe because a map maker can't test his new map on an autohost and is left trying to host his own game and advertise it.
players ignore maps, play old ugly shit mapper gets jaded and moves on..
that is where they all went.
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scifi
Posts: 848
Joined: 10 May 2009, 12:27

Re: Ban the autohosts from spring

Post by scifi »

BaNa wrote:ffs all we need are more lobbywide mods who can, true to their name, moderate games. They already have highest rights on autohosts. When I play on teh autohost (rare as fuck, should be *used to play*), I could just !boss myself and cycle good maps and KEEP TEAMSIZE CONSTANT, without !vote spam. Strangely, we still had enough players and specs.

More actively maintained autohosts are what we need. Maybe make it so that someone with mod rights has to be in the battle room for the autohost to become visible to others?
I proposed that in a long forgotten thread, you cant aproach that way, some people have already sugested that, the awnser was always "your limiting peoples ability to play", you cant meddle in other peoples hosts, "its the responsibility of the autohost owner to moderate his/her host".
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