Decline in the number of players - Page 2

Decline in the number of players

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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luckywaldo7
Posts: 1398
Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 04:36

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by luckywaldo7 »

Hoi wrote:
FLOZi wrote:Also I disagree with pretty much every single word of Hoi's post.
You're free too, but there are some very simple facts in my post:

- The community is very unfriendly
(not you guys but the people the new players end up with playing)
- Spring isn't very user friendly
- Ba dsd 8v8 ruins everything

Spring has much more potential, and should have much more players, but the points above are correct. Because of those three 99.9% of the people who try it quit almost instantly.
I dunno about you but I guide a lot of newbies through starting with spring. And in my humble experience, the vast majority of problems are technical, thanks to ati and integrated intel graphics.
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MidKnight
Posts: 2652
Joined: 10 Sep 2008, 03:11

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by MidKnight »

I'm sure licho wasn't intending to offend smoth with his post.

The point he's trying to make is that installing to program files goes directly against ZKLobby's design principles. The project went forward with convenience and reliability as the first priority. Licho wants an app that "just works," so that users can get from the installer to a spring game as quickly and as easily as possible.

Because of this philosophy, a decision that pisses off some expert users is easily outweighed if it prevents even 1% of users from accessing the game without issues.

Anyway, none of this is a problem for you, smoth. ZKLobby's data is customizable, and you can make a build for GRTS that does exactly what you want it to. :-)
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14673
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Forboding Angel »

Hoi wrote:
FLOZi wrote:Also I disagree with pretty much every single word of Hoi's post.
You're free too, but there are some very simple facts in my post:

- The community is very unfriendly
(not you guys but the people the new players end up with playing)
- Spring isn't very user friendly
- Ba dsd 8v8 ruins everything

Spring has much more potential, and should have much more players, but the points above are correct. Because of those three 99.9% of the people who try it quit almost instantly.
The Evo community, while tiny, is very friendly. Spring is as user friendly as the game you're playing. Evo is very user friendly. Evo doesn't really have to worry about 8v8 but even if it did, metal income in evo is evenly split between all allies so therefore there is no issue.

Replace spring with ba and you post won't be bs anymore.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6240
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by FLOZi »

Pxtl wrote:@Smoth

I don't understand how you're married to a single-directory layout in this day and age. What directory do Steam games install to? And yet Steam has rapidly become the most popular content distribution platform for PC games. No operating system works like that anymore.
Steamapps? A subdirectory of the main Steam install?

And is it really so different to want Spring games to do the same. :P
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smoth
Posts: 22309
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by smoth »

Re: but but steam:
because spring in not a content distribution system?
because I have my own installer.
because I am the longest running gundam player and I have to appeal to my fans, right, right?

I use steam only when I have to. Otherwise I have a harddrive dedicated to only game installs. I hate when something takes my os down and I lose game files. I like some isolation between the os and games.
Hoi wrote:- The community is very unfriendly
Modern gaming communities all are.
Image
Hoi wrote:- Spring isn't very user friendly
I have an all in one installer most gundam players have no issue thanks to the autohost. Oh driver issues? yeah those retards should not be trying to play a game like this when thier computer just meets wcIII max requirements.
Hoi wrote:- Ba dsd 8v8 ruins everything
Doesn't effect gundam.
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bibim
Lobby Developer
Posts: 952
Joined: 06 Dec 2007, 11:12

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by bibim »

jj wrote:I notice a decline in the number of spring players.
I'm not sure about that:
Image

jj wrote:I remember 2008, where we had 400 players online.
Well, if we take a look at today's players stats for example, it seems we reached 400:
Image
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jj
Posts: 273
Joined: 01 Apr 2006, 19:03

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by jj »

thanks for the stats bibim, i was looking for something like that.
Good to see that there isnt much changed over the years.

still, most of those inactive users in your chart are bots.
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Petah
Posts: 426
Joined: 13 Jan 2008, 19:40

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Petah »

From my experience introducing people to spring:

- The community is very unfriendly
This was one of their biggest issues.

- Spring isn't very user friendly
Most people manage fine with a few pointers about UI, keyboard controls, and widgets.

- Ba dsd 8v8 ruins everything
This is in fact the thing they normally like the best.
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TradeMark
Posts: 4867
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 15:58

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by TradeMark »

Petah wrote:- Ba dsd 8v8 ruins everything
This is in fact the thing they normally like the best.
i introduced some guy to spring... after dozen of problems until he managed to actually play it, eventually he ended up whining that everyone only plays 8v8 DSD ...
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Hoi
Posts: 2917
Joined: 13 May 2008, 16:51

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Hoi »

Forboding Angel wrote:The Evo community, while tiny, is very friendly. Spring is as user friendly as the game you're playing. Evo is very user friendly. Evo doesn't really have to worry about 8v8 but even if it did, metal income in evo is evenly split between all allies so therefore there is no issue.

Replace spring with ba and you post won't be bs anymore.
- People download engine without games
- Look at games in lobby, see 100x ba dsd 99x empty 1x nearly full
- They download ba and join the server
- People kick them for being a noob, or take their com, or something like that
- They leave

Sure gundam and evo communities are more friendly, but most players just download the engine. The only thing they see in the lobby is ba (you don't really notice a game of gundam or evo in a list of 100 empty ba autohosts, or you think it sucks because there are so many more ba games), so they think ba = spring, then find out how much it sucks and then leave.

It's all about first impressions.
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TradeMark
Posts: 4867
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 15:58

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by TradeMark »

Hoi wrote:- Look at games in lobby, see 100x ba dsd 99x empty 1x nearly full
- They download ba and join the server
- People kick them for being a noob, or take their com, or something like that
- They leave
have you got any proof that the people actually left spring once they were kicked/fucked? seriously... anyone who plays on the internet knows this will happen in every game thats popular enough. and they will try to play a game with people around their own skillset first, and thats where ranks come in. Also anyone who seriously wants to play some game would first try it alone to see how to play it first, especially a game like this with tzillion things you can build.
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knorke
Posts: 7971
Joined: 22 Feb 2006, 01:02

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by knorke »

a lot of players (I for one) don't join #main, so it's not a good number
worst decision ever?
A populated and active chat is important for any online game. It shows that you can get help and that the game is not dead.

Basically BADSD is mainly a magnet to those players who find spring over springrts.com. They join whatever is hosted, of cause that is BA.
One could say it is the games "fault" if springrts.com attracts more players then the games homepage.
Also thing is that at least BA plays "well" on DSD and everything is set up correctly.
The chances that a player sees [enter nonBA game] in rapid downloader and starts playing it on a map and with settings that make sense, are low.
More likely it will be S44 on speedmetal with NullAI. Awesome.

And those customized complete game installers, at the moment they cause more trouble then anything. It is always a matter of finding out what the newb has installed ie this thread http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21865
Another time I was explaining to somebody how to use zKL's rapid tab only to find out the next day that his zkl hides the rapid tab because it was downloaded from a different site.

Btw what is a "rapid" even, how is anybody supposed to know that is a download system for new games...
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10450
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by PicassoCT »

It would just be enough, if nubs couldnt die in first games. Just be turned into a sort of spectrator, that can buy units from still fighting on players, so they have something to do, still can fight, without base and economy to screw up. (found that the main nub-bash reason- they always go for tech3 without understanding eco) Could be integrated into ba.

tl,dr; Nubs want minigame to start, no base, just units and fighting. Chip stairs into learning curvecliff.
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Cheesecan
Posts: 1571
Joined: 07 Feb 2005, 21:30

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Cheesecan »

I think the best way to attract new players is by following the long tail business model by creating new niche games that cater to new players. The games we have right now are not attracting much people because they are competing with new RTS games like Starcraft 2 etc. But as we've seen with games like Minecraft there are lots of niche gamers out there.
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Valheru
Posts: 72
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 12:43

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Valheru »

Well based on the general gist of spring being unfriendly to new players, why dont we integrate some sort of tutorial/tips system into BA. I dont know, some sort of tip boxes that pop up explaining different parts of the game, that you can choose to disable once you get the hang of things?
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Wombat
Posts: 3379
Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 15:53

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Wombat »

*yawn* u still not bored of blaming dsd for whole spring evil...
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
Posts: 3359
Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by CarRepairer »

Valheru wrote:why dont we ...[do stuff]... into BA.
There's a BA subforum if you have suggestions for its devs (which you refer to as "we"). This is General Discussion for Spring.
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Gota
Posts: 7151
Joined: 11 Jan 2008, 16:55

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Gota »

Spring is dying...bla bla bla...
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smoth
Posts: 22309
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by smoth »

knorke wrote:And those customized complete game installers, at the moment they cause more trouble then anything. It is always a matter of finding out what the newb has installed ie this thread http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21865
this comment doesn't make sense. that guy couldn't play ba either, it has nothing to do with the installer.
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Valheru
Posts: 72
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 12:43

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Valheru »

CarRepairer wrote:
Valheru wrote:why dont we ...[do stuff]... into BA.
There's a BA subforum if you have suggestions for its devs (which you refer to as "we"). This is General Discussion for Spring.
This thread is entirely about ways to increase the spring playerbase and my best suggestion for this is to add a feature to the most played mod to encourage new players to keep playing. Your message is appallingly dismissive.
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