Decline in the number of players - Page 4

Decline in the number of players

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22300
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by smoth »

knorke wrote:other way around: players trying to find the rapid tab in zkl to download gundam. it is hidden.
your concern?
It isn't, I don't want people dling gundam off rapid. I want them using the installer. The only reason gundam is on rapid is advanced users wanted it there and put it there. Other lobbies are not my issue.

Players should go here: http://www.indiedb.com/games/gundam-rts
get the installer go play.

linux guys. Well I am sorry but they will just have to do the whole download spring + game. There is no simple way for me to cover for them.
zwzsg wrote:If an installer for a game that isn't *A include RAI (or any AI beside LuaAI, actually), then it's confusing because newbie is tempted to use the AI, not knowing the AI will either crash or do nothing.
^this
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SpliFF
Posts: 1224
Joined: 28 Jul 2008, 06:51

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by SpliFF »

The problem is not BA/DSD. Quite the opposite in fact.

The reason is the Spring community consists mostly of ex-TA players and TA is now 14 years old. Most people who played it when it was released have grown up, got married, full-time jobs, new interests, etc.

Basically there are three things keeping Spring going. Nostagia, price (it's free) and the fact it's one of the few complete RTS you can play on Mac/Linux. It's only real competition on those platforms is Warzone2100.

A lot of effort has gone into expanding the engine beyond TA and this will pay off slowly as new games come along. Spring:1944 and Gundam for example are clearly evolving out of their "beta" phase to the point where they would be considered on-par with many standard commercial RTS.

The way I see it the biggest gap to be filled right now is accessible singleplayer and tutorials. People need a chance to learn the game before being dumped into online games. Fortunately a lot of work has been going into this aspect over the last 2 years and I think we'll start seeing pay-offs over the next two years as SP campaigns and AI become easier to create, download, and play.

@smoth. Linux players would be best served by supporting native package management (apt, portage, etc). I've already offered to do this for any game dev who asks but so far nobody has.
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User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22300
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by smoth »

yeah there was some kind of issue with licensing. if you could come meet me on mumble and chat some time that would be great.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14616
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Forboding Angel »

[12:46] <[S44]Nemo> "spring is losing players" becoming a MTR
[12:51] <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> SO what?
[12:51] <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> We aren't losing players
[12:51] <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> It's basically *A is losing players
[12:51] <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> ...
[12:51] <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> who cares?
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Wombat
Posts: 3379
Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 15:53

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Wombat »

joke of the year (tho, it might be bit true coz BA is the only game that actually GOT players to lose, PWND)
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User avatar
Cheesecan
Posts: 1571
Joined: 07 Feb 2005, 21:30

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Cheesecan »

smoth wrote:I used to do that mav but it makes it so that your game is dependant on begging people to play. Not hosting on their own.
..
Well you pretty much said it yourself, you were trying to attract BA players to Gundam. Most BA players are too set in their ways to want to play/enjoy other games. A better idea is to try and attract people who have never tried BA or spring before. That's where the growth potential is.

I think you've recognized this by now but I'm just mentioning it as a topic point because I think a lot of people are very fixed on the idea that there should be one lobby for all games when in fact separation, specialization and a complete "game experience" is the way to go to attract new gamers to spring.

Let's not forget that most of us here are now quite a bit older than the majority of the potential growth player base which is 10-18 yo. They have different expectations on games but also, and very importantly, have less technical knowledge than previous generations because they did not grow up programming on C64 or hacking webpages or whatnot.

All kids of today do is play xbox live and they don't bother to learn the tech we did because everything is already done for them by previous generations. They are the 1-click installation generation. So you cannot expect them to figure out how to install spring+ba+gundam blabla from some shady download page with funny logos of windows and some penguin(wtf is dis??). They will be repelled by the lack of polish and then that's it, they put it down and never look at it again because their generations attention span is nil.
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TradeMark
Posts: 4867
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 15:58

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by TradeMark »

smoth wrote:The first version... you need to clarify because I was in on the early early alpha when it was just urc and still I was not in on the first version that was played.
http://modinfo.adune.nl/index.php?side= ... te_v_0.163
this version
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14616
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Forboding Angel »

163 was well along in the development path.
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Licho
Zero-K Developer
Posts: 3803
Joined: 19 May 2006, 19:13

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Licho »

Well massive effort we put into CA and now Zero-K finally pays off, we now have increasing player base and 170 new unique visitors on site every day. Game is done except for planetwars, more SP missions and of course polishing.

Its now real alternative to BA, there is alsmost always game running and this really helps too.

We will continue hacking around engine and lobby server to make it even more comfy for nubs to get into game.

Few ideas in the pipe: ingame team balancing/speccing instead of lobby, midgame new player join (not just spec), staging room (all people in one huge room with tens of people, automatically starts the game for normal sized groups for team games - but they never leave staging room in lobby)
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Sefidel
Posts: 77
Joined: 14 Dec 2006, 02:02

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Sefidel »

The Best way to increase players is to bitch about it on the forum.
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Wombat
Posts: 3379
Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 15:53

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Wombat »

gotta be painful to see sefi making smartest post in this thread.
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TradeMark
Posts: 4867
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 15:58

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by TradeMark »

Forboding Angel wrote:163 was well along in the development path.
yeah, i stopped playing after 163 version
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Cremuss
Posts: 364
Joined: 28 Oct 2006, 21:38

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Cremuss »

I agree with Hoi

- spring community is unfriendly
- spring itself isn't userfriendly
- BA DSD is boring and is the only game (almost) playable anytime you want.

IMHO Spring isn't userfriendly because everything is centered around the engine and lobby.

What I mean is you don't installl unreal engine, then install unreal engine lobby (?) THEN only can download and play UT3, Red Orchestra 2, Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect 2 etc...

You just install the game and that's all, the engine itself is kept beyond user's control.

Maybe it's time to provide people a way to install games and ONLY games (I already saw some examples with Gundam I think), not spring/springlobby/mods, and maybe it's time to stop advertising the Spring engine itself and let games make their own promotion outside Spring community for their games and automaticly for Spring.
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1v0ry_k1ng
Posts: 4656
Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

TradeMark wrote:
Forboding Angel wrote:163 was well along in the development path.
yeah, i stopped playing after 163 version
163 was the golden age of EE.. peak of popularity, incredible KAI support and generally awesome game and balance. then EE died completely when it went 'epic scale' (read: all the units were made tiny so players had to rely on icons; the icon scheme was horrible, newer players couldnt even figure out how to configure the icon distance to be playable the whole deal did a hindenburg)
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bibim
Lobby Developer
Posts: 901
Joined: 06 Dec 2007, 11:12

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by bibim »

Licho wrote:Well massive effort we put into CA and now Zero-K finally pays off, we now have increasing player base and 170 new unique visitors on site every day. Game is done except for planetwars, more SP missions and of course polishing.

Its now real alternative to BA, there is alsmost always game running and this really helps too.
Indeed, good job:
Image
(5 minutes average)


For the first time, the number of CA/ZK in-game players (1 week average) is greater than it used to be when I started collecting these statistics in mid-2008:
Image
(the hole in the beginning of 2011 is due to CA being renamed to ZK and StatServ not being aware of it)
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User avatar
Licho
Zero-K Developer
Posts: 3803
Joined: 19 May 2006, 19:13

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Licho »

Cremuss there is no such thing as spring engine advertising and there is actual game downloads.

Most ganes now supply it, including zero-k, S44, gundam, evo rts,
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User avatar
albator
Posts: 866
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 14:20

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by albator »

The folling probabily is mostly about BA


I postulate:
- Player always goes host where the most poeple are cause not so much games are running.
- unexperienced player (DSD-veteran) does not like pressure and prefer to play large game.


General remark:
- I never saw a game that is more balanced than this one (BA) for XvX games |X >= 8 with such a wide range of unit/tactics. Balance is not the (primary) issue.


Reason why BA (Spring) number of player decease is not:
- unfriendly_player/morons: there use to be tons of hacks before and more were playing.
- BA 6V6 DSD


Reason why BA (Spring) number of player decease is :
- BA 16V16 DSD : made possible cause of higher speed of Computer. To be honnest, a clan can easily run the game. I do not combomb anymore but 16v16 become combomb fest. I am thinking about starting again to prove my point :D. Becasue of the really high concentraction of the commander, new players see that the game issue is summed up by some decisive moves of 1 air guy combombing 10 times in a row with allies com, he does not really feel like thinking BA (Spring?) has anything of strategcal but more purely tactical kinda game. Combomb is the most extreme exemple, but all kinds of T2 rush can do it. If 12 players porc front, the 4 teckeur can rush nuke plus T2 plus goli + etc..., send air comdrop.... ( triple rush nuke to saturate anti :D, triple T2 air + com drop, etc..)

Point is : you can afford to loose some coms (teckeur) by taking some risk in 16v16, risk that usually pays (wide variety of comdrop/bomb//tecking. In 8v8 you cannot and that is the all difference.


--> Solution1 ? : impose engine limitation in number of player for maps according what map-maker think: feel a bit not the "spring sprit" however.
--> Solution2 ?: Run every over crowded games until host owner remove 12v12 game



What I think is a solution to bring back players / make them stay:
- Bring competition.
--> encourage match clan
--> encourage tourneys
--> bring back ladder.
--> make player ranking for everygame with ranking level that depends from the size of the game you play (you should evolulute far more slowly by playing 8v8 than 1v1)

Why ?

Take a look at last tourneys. Before it starts, everyone was playing 1v1 even it has (almost) totally stop for 6 months
Good players left casue of lack of competition.

- We should all play our own games by hosting ourself (or on autohost we have rights) and make our own games. After a while, poeple come to spec and want to play the maps too (last time I played small game, I got 24 players specing and everyone was fighting to play the next turn after that.) Maybe we should all get a tag so when there are 6 [FUDSD] tags in 12v12 autohost we know we can create a 3v3 game on another map


- Finally, mods dev. other than BA should stop depreciated it cause BA is the reason why they get attracted here and will eventually play other games including theirs. When I look at help threads, I see mods developeur answering question by ignoring that the question was referer to BA and starting to imply they would not have this problem in his mods...
That makes the communauty looks childlish/stupid.
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User avatar
1v0ry_k1ng
Posts: 4656
Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

tl dr;

the competetive community upped its skirts and left to pastures anew post 2007. only noobs and trolls remain.
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User avatar
albator
Posts: 866
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 14:20

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by albator »

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:tl dr;

the competetive community upped its skirts and left to pastures anew post 2007. only noobs and trolls remain.
1) everyone playing here has a huge ego: huge proportion of flaming on this forum confirm that fact.
2) You have one too since you care about posting a lot of threads (you like to post cause you like to be read and your opinon to be valued by other, like anyone else inclinding me, I wont go further)
3) facts :

http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24850
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24839
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24833
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24787
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Jazcash
Posts: 5302
Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 17:39

Re: Decline in the number of players

Post by Jazcash »

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