Make Kernel Panic the official showcase game?

[FLOZi]

I'm behind the SD game buffet, here. No one particular game defines spring.

If we wanted to make a flagship game, I think it should be an 'example' game with polished, well-documented units, scripts, and samples of code provided by the community.

But that wouldn't really be something to go in the engine package, but a game dev package (basically the end point of my ABC idea. A btw, as of 0.82, is nothing but a modinfo.lua now)

[AF]

Unless your already aware of moddb, the first impression is you've landed on a review or some foreign site and you close the page. Its nowhere near as effective as a black page with the kernel panic logo in the middle, and a download link with 5 thumbnails underneath.

But most of all

Profile != website

Its like when I list my facebook profile as my website, it's not my website, its not a website, its a profile damnit, and it annoys the hell out of people, so why is it okay for you to do it for your game?

Heck the only image above the fold is half obscured, dark, poor contrast, and smaller and more insignificant than the giant moddb logo overshadowing it.

[Neddie]

I've played an awful lot of KP, with games ranging from two to eight human players. I've also run LAN parties.

KP is already the flagship game in Linux distributions because it is offered as a package. I would have no qualms seeing it packaged in Windows and eventual OS X installers, given that the missions remained functional and the AI remained stable. The number of people I've sold on Spring with a five minute demonstration of Kernel Panic dwarfs any other advertising strategy I've used, from fliers to organized parties, to web advertisements.

I've long been in favour of creating a Kernel Panic site but lacked the skills and resources to do so. z, KDR, smoth, AF, Boirunner and various others have all had independent discussions with me on the topic over the past few years.

Nevertheless, I have some sympathy with the position that there is/should not appear to be a flagship game. However, not having one simply isn't good for spreading Spring to players.

[KaiserJ]

s44 would make a great flagship i think

[FLOZi]

s44 would make a great flagship i think

S44 is rougher than a badgers turd after it's eaten a hedgehog.

Also, ww2 is sadly so blas├®.

[Neddie]

Well, I'm flattered you think so, but I think we have to iron out some continuing problems and finish implementing optional elements like Prisoners and Map Cover, then commit ourselves to maintenance. We don't have a current release suited for such purposes, and WWII doesn't appeal to all.

[KaiserJ]

well then it seems like 3 choices, were spring to go the route of flagship...

1) the TA:IP route, which will shoot us in the foot because nobody will feature us on their site (right?) BA is the most popular mod, but really doesn't show the full depth of variety and power of the engine. ignoring the copyright issue is foolish IMO, its not like they're going to shut down spring because of BA but it makes people reviewing the engine think twice... its not really "ours", so how can it be our flagship game?

2) the KP route, which really is the best branded and simplest game to pick up but may not appeal to hardcore RTS fans

3) the unpolished mod route, go with s44 or CA or any number of other games, and let the screenshots do the talking... are any projects actually getting to the point where they could be considered complete?

[AF]

There's no indication that given a functional implementation that is up to date, that Zwzsg or anyone else would maintain it and keep it up to date, even if all it took was making sure the videos where the latest and the download link was always pointed at the latest and greatest.

I would say EvoRTS is the most viable options after Kernel Panic, but its still not at 100% v1.0 release yet. Forb says its close though and it already has much polish that other games dont, thanks to Z himself with his startup.

[Neddie]

Zwzsg has and probably will continue to keep the game up to date. As long as the backend for the site is easy to navigate, any number of people can be trusted with maintenance there.

[KaiserJ]

yeh evo's getting pretty playable but i'd say we need quite a bit of spit-shine to get her to the point where KP is (professional looking, custom interface etc)

maybe in a few months

[el_matarife]

Why? It's a shiny website plastered in shiny pictures and videos!

http://www.moddb.com/games/kernel-panic/

You really need to own a top level domain for legitimacy even if it just redirects to your ModDB page right now. Especially since .COM .NET and .ORG are available for your game name, it would suck to have someone else squat them.

Unless your already aware of moddb, the first impression is you've landed on a review or some foreign site and you close the page. Its nowhere near as effective as a black page with the kernel panic logo in the middle, and a download link with 5 thumbnails underneath. But most of all profile != website

A simple Wordpress blog chronicling releases and other news with a screenshot page and an easy download link at the top is all most mods really need. Chronicling releases with changelogs is an important way of demonstrating to visitors "hey this mod is under active development and look at all the progress we make regularly".

[zwzsg]

I agree I really should upload more newsposts, if only to show KP's not dead.

[Pxtl]

I think KP is the most polished free project on the Spring engine (PURE is similarly good, but PURE is closed license)... but it's also weird enough that I wouldn't want it bundled as an "official" product unless there was a second game packaged to counterbalance it. Too bad Fanger disappeared - EE would be a good one. Maybe EvoRTS when it gets ready for prime time. Or Zero-K if they ever get all the bugs out (not likely).

also, I agree the moddb page is a fantastic Kernel Panic landing page. However

We're sorry, but no news has been posted here.

is a problem. Just dump your changelogs in there.

[zwzsg]

Why is nobody mentionning The Cursed? It has detailed models, no IP strings, showcase a wide range of feature, and feels much more like a true RTS than KP.

[Pxtl]

Why is nobody mentionning The Cursed? It has detailed models, no IP strings, showcase a wide range of feature, and feels much more like a true RTS than KP.

Because I keep completely forgetting that it exists on account of the fact that it is scientifically impossible to get a game of it going, and therefore have never played it.

Seriously, if we had more non-BA players I'd love to get a Mod Of The Day server dedicated to all the active open mods. Just divvy the month up between KP, Cursed, Gundam, Zero-K, EvoRTS, etc.

[AF]

The Cursed is further behind the likes of EvolutionRTS nevermind Kernel Panic

[Hobo Joe]

You know, Spring community is dwarfed by the starcraft one. Maybe it's time we eventually stop this comedy and eventually just put SC2 in the installer. Not to mention, you must not log very often and not have a very good eyesight to not see KP games.

Completely missed my point. I'm saying, if we use KP as the 'flagship', new people will join and have nobody to play with, because KP isn't played. It'll be an even rougher ride to get into their first game than it already is.




And on the subject of copyright, I'm still confused about this. Everyone says we won't be able to be featured due to infringement and stuff, but that's not consistent with other derivative works. Say for example, an HL2 mod. More often than not they will rip models, textures, and sounds from some Source game - and yet it's entirely legal. They can advertise and distribute as they please, so long as they aren't selling it. Hell oftentimes they're even advertised and distributed by Valve themselves.

What makes TA derivatives different? We aren't selling so I don't understand why we can't advertise and spread the word without fear of legal retribution(despite the fact that we all know Atari isn't doing anything and they obviously don't care).

[JohannesH]

What makes TA derivatives different? We aren't selling so I don't understand why we can't advertise and spread the word without fear of legal retribution(despite the fact that we all know Atari isn't doing anything and they obviously don't care).

But you can! Nobodys stopping your advertisement!

[Das Bruce]

Completely missed my point. I'm saying, if we use KP as the 'flagship', new people will join and have nobody to play with, because KP isn't played. It'll be an even rougher ride to get into their first game than it already is.

Are you familiar with the term 'self fulfilling prophesy'?

And on the subject of copyright, I'm still confused about this. Everyone says we won't be able to be featured due to infringement and stuff, but that's not consistent with other derivative works. Say for example, an HL2 mod. More often than not they will rip models, textures, and sounds from some Source game - and yet it's entirely legal. They can advertise and distribute as they please, so long as they aren't selling it. Hell oftentimes they're even advertised and distributed by Valve themselves.

What makes TA derivatives different? We aren't selling so I don't understand why we can't advertise and spread the word without fear of legal retribution(despite the fact that we all know Atari isn't doing anything and they obviously don't care).

We're not using the TA engine. That's the difference.

[Hobo Joe]

We're not using the TA engine. That's the difference.

Oh, duh, I don't know what I was thinking, turned my brain off.


Still, there are plenty of IP free mods that could be used to feature if we wanted to advertise. Evo, KP, S44, maybe even CA sometime soon. We don't need a flagship, we just need something nice that shows off what Spring can do and gives lots of pretty games to download. I know Jaz's site is doing this but I don't know the ETA of it being done. It was looking damn good last I checked though.


And nothing like some good old fashioned word of mouth either. :p